COPS forum mafia
- Thread starter pharphis
- Start date
vote count:
Bad Ash (1): Zokar,
Zokar (0): (Sathoris)
Laarz (1): Drixx
Numbers (1): CG
Goryani (1): Sathoris
Let me know if I screwed up
Reminder to point out who you are unvoting (for my convenience) if you intend to unvote someone, and before revoting
Bad Ash (1): Zokar,
Zokar (0): (Sathoris)
Laarz (1): Drixx
Numbers (1): CG
Goryani (1): Sathoris
Let me know if I screwed up
Reminder to point out who you are unvoting (for my convenience) if you intend to unvote someone, and before revoting
Hmm. Interesting that Drixx and I have completely differing opinions on the towniness of BA's statement. I think it's town in this situation simply because there are so few players. Yes, your statement about the absolute numbers changing equally is true...but the % of total lost lynch opportunities is greater because there are less players.
13 player game, 3 scum, 3 mislyches+3 kills put us at 7 players, 3 scum, on the last day, so town gets 4 mislynches, with what's actually a greater % of the field as scum. No lynch D1 means 3 nights in town is at 8 players, 3 scum, and they don't actually lose anything even though they didn't lynch D1 they can pick up this lynch on the last day. That is a result of there being more players, and thus more leeway in what town can afford to miss on.
Say it's a 31 player game. ~7 scum would be, again, at slightly more scum tahn this game? How many consecutive mislynches does town have there? Scum need to get the game down to 14 players, so that's 17 deaths, so that's 9.
It's just more significant as a % of total lynch opportunities offered to the town in a small game, than in a large one.
I think you're sorta right about it about no lynching being kinda the same as a mislynch, but I think losing out on one of an especially limited number of lynch opportunities is bad.
Also, you will never live that down.
13 player game, 3 scum, 3 mislyches+3 kills put us at 7 players, 3 scum, on the last day, so town gets 4 mislynches, with what's actually a greater % of the field as scum. No lynch D1 means 3 nights in town is at 8 players, 3 scum, and they don't actually lose anything even though they didn't lynch D1 they can pick up this lynch on the last day. That is a result of there being more players, and thus more leeway in what town can afford to miss on.
Say it's a 31 player game. ~7 scum would be, again, at slightly more scum tahn this game? How many consecutive mislynches does town have there? Scum need to get the game down to 14 players, so that's 17 deaths, so that's 9.
It's just more significant as a % of total lynch opportunities offered to the town in a small game, than in a large one.
I think you're sorta right about it about no lynching being kinda the same as a mislynch, but I think losing out on one of an especially limited number of lynch opportunities is bad.
Also, you will never live that down.
Hmm, I missed the part where phar said this wouldn't be a vanilla game. I think I said somewhere before that it was...I guess you should disregard that statement. Kinda assumed an open setup game with only the information we were given was vanilla. 
Ok
Vote: Drixx
Easy enough. First off I'm well aware of the first one to run the numbers is scum mentality, so I was looking for someone to jump on it. Not only did that happen in a spectacularly more passionate stance than I would have thought, I don't think it's so insanely obvious that we only get two mislynches if we don't vote to lynch someone today.
It is absolutely pertinent information considering our increased number of nights lynches due to activity.
Hi scum.
Vote: Drixx
Easy enough. First off I'm well aware of the first one to run the numbers is scum mentality, so I was looking for someone to jump on it. Not only did that happen in a spectacularly more passionate stance than I would have thought, I don't think it's so insanely obvious that we only get two mislynches if we don't vote to lynch someone today.
It is absolutely pertinent information considering our increased number of nights lynches due to activity.
Hi scum.
Hello guilty conscious. Already defending yourself with a "I'd do that either as town or scum" line?
So which is it? Is it a Public Service Announcement or is it a trap? Call me naive, but I don't think it can be both.
I forgot the lynch rules. It's a simple lynch/lock setup. Edited this into the first post
"7. Lynching requires the majority of players to vote for the same player. That is, half of the remaining number of players rounded down + 1. A lock occurs when someone with enough votes to be lynched receives another vote, and will be lynched at the end of the day (cannot be unvoted)"
Day ends in 3 hours but I won't be able to do the day end post for perhaps an hour later
"7. Lynching requires the majority of players to vote for the same player. That is, half of the remaining number of players rounded down + 1. A lock occurs when someone with enough votes to be lynched receives another vote, and will be lynched at the end of the day (cannot be unvoted)"
Day ends in 3 hours but I won't be able to do the day end post for perhaps an hour later
- Apr 8, 2006
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It became a "trap" retroactively when I went after him for it. The scum team generally are the ones who are concerned with how many mislynches give them victory. I suppose he could have put it out there with a plan to go after whichever person called him on it.
I find Numbers nearly as scummy for reading it as a town post.
True or False: In all games where the town may first lynch with an odd number of players alive, a failure to lynch on the first day has the same net effect as a mislynch in terms of how many mislynches the town can make before scum wins, unless some other force intervenes (doc save, jailer, extra kill, etc...)
This is logically true and simple to think through on its face.
Also, generally just unvoting has been sufficient, but apparently not this game:
Unvote: Laarz
Vote: Bad Ash
I posit that Bad Ash took fairly obvious information and tried to phrase it in such a way as to get townie points. His post was essentially saying "We have to lynch or else we lose a mislynch" ... and he made that post in a meta which has had general agreement for years that the town should always lynch unless there is some mitigating factor that makes not lynching preferable. There's nothing at all townie about it.
In this game, with a blind start, we have a 78% chance to nail a townie with what will amount to a random lynch today. Day 1 is usually a little worse than random though, since Scum can and will take advantage of an opportunity to make a townie look bad.
According to the opening post, this is not a vanilla game and according to Post #25, and let me quote here, Investigation results by cops are NOT random.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who caught the plural there and took note of the name of the game. So the "Semi-open" setup is 7 town, 2 mafia and we know that cops are not "Random" cops. It seems safe to assume multiple cops, and so it may be helpful to review the general types of cops. This cannot possibly be all inclusive because, let's face it, a rather twisted mind made this game ... but here goes:
- Sane Cop: Results are accurate
- Insane Cop: Results are opposite of what they should be (once the player realizes this, usually via self-investigation, they can investigate as reliably as a Sane cop)
- Paranoid Cop: All results come up guilty (once this player realizes this, further use of investigate is useless)
- Naive Cop: All results come up innocent (Like the Paranoid cop, useless to even use the power once you realize)
On top of the various sanities that cops can have, there are also different types of cops. Rolecops, daycops, gunsmith cops, vanilla/not-vanilla cops (reads a mafia without powers as vanilla, for example), macho cop (cannot be night saved), amnesia cop (results sent randomly to another player or to a specific player, depending).
Given all this possibility in the semi-open setup for a game called cops, Bad Ash's post reads even more scummy than it normally would, because the information the host has given us seems to at the very least imply more than one cop. If scum spent a couple minutes thinking about it and realized that there could be multiple cops of varying sanities and flavors, then trying to ensure a day 1 lynch in as townie a fashion as possible seems like a play scum would want to make.
It's quite possible I've read more into the pluralization in post #25 than is intended, but I think the name of the mini-game along with that post are fairly strong clues as to what kind of mini-game we're playing.
So now the question is whether this is probable enough to warrant a change in how we approach day 1. If there are multiple cops, is it worth giving up a mislynch opportunity to avoid what might be a high probability of killing a cop?
For now, I'll keep my vote on Bad Ash, because his post feels very scummy to me, and after thinking about it ... it strikes me as advocating exactly what scum would want to happen if they came to the same conclusion as me about the possibility of multiple cops.
It also seems to me that since it's likely there are multiple cops, they would be wise to self-investigate to check sanity before sharing a guilty result, especially since, as Bad Ash so helpfully pointed out, we have a limited amount of mislynches and an Insane cop giving a guilty result would basically get another townie and then himself killed and that just about ends the game by itself.
Holy jeeze. I haven't put together such a wall of text in a long time. I've gone back and pre-edited quite a bit out, so I hope I didn't cut out anything necessary for what I'm saying to make logical sense.
I've edited the first post to rephrase a sentence...
"There are 7 town, 2 mafia. Investigation results by cops are NOT strictly random."
"There are 7 town, 2 mafia. Investigation results by cops are NOT strictly random."
Unvote: Numbers
Vote: Bad Ash
I'd be happier with a Numbers lynch, but doesn't look like that's going to happen. And BA said it himself: We need to make sure lynches happen, right?
Vote: Bad Ash
I'd be happier with a Numbers lynch, but doesn't look like that's going to happen. And BA said it himself: We need to make sure lynches happen, right?
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