Confessions of a Glitcher: One strategy to maximize Wealth from CS

[ffs]

I adjusted the strategy a little, now also hitting Stormcaster groups (3+) when clearing right and top seal.

Reason: With the help of @Luhkoh's RF calc I realized that I can break even with AS Java efficiency with only 7+ more Stormcaster kills while keeping run times under 75 seconds. Note that's based on my initial body count above, which in turn is based on a pretty small sample size. But maybe these CS runs are better than AS after all.

I'll record and review some more once I find the motivation.

EDIT: Also gave both Lightning Sorc and Javazon a shot. They have similar run times actually... if it wasn't for LIs. These just slow the average run times down too much in comparison to Hammerdin... Going to try with Barb also.

EDIT 2: Following the below: Nevermind, I had the RF Calc set to "Zod" so yeah the conclusion remains. Worse than AS, but better than Vizier-only runs or Pit runs. Note that this strategy is now "allowed but discouraged" in terms of SPF rules.

 

[sir_cyclops]

@ffs this is what I like to hear!

I still think, for underpowered characters, (assuming @maxicek considers p setting switching acceptable) that doing p1 or p3 seal boss kills with p7 spawn of all the monsters in the entryway and pentagram area, will result in better runs than most places. On my trapper, even before enigma, (and before it became a rule issue) I was able to do pretty fast runs with this strategy.

 

[ffs]

Sorry about the back and forth everyone and sorry about breaking the news @sir_cyclops – but I had 'Zod' selected in the RF Calc LOL.

So yeah, I'm afraid the initial conclusion remains. Even with some improvements other areas are quite ahead... unless you score a Zod in CS.

That being said, a total of ~3 hours of seal glitch CS running weren't too bad for me:

Spoiler

View attachment 13176

View attachment 13177

Of course the HRs drop after RFL round 1. Maybe RNG works differently there.

 

[helvete1]

AS is.... Arcane Sanctuary? Aren't a lot of items lost in space there?

 

[Belthazor]

@ffs What was your setup for the lightning sorc? I would assume that with Griffon's and Crescent Moon, immunities shouldn't slow you down too much, but I haven't tried it myself yet.

 

[ffs]

@LongingForDeath Yes including CM and Griffon's. I used my untwinked 99er Sorc with the gear listed in there. Of course they help a lot vs breakable LIs, but I meant unbreakable LIs. Unfortunately are just a bit too frequent (in particular Vizier). I can have the Merc kill them but it adds a lot of time.

@helvete See here... with the right positioning it's not hard to avoid losing drops in AS.

 

[Jamie]

I have never heard of AS (I assume you mean Arcane Sanctuary) being a place to farm. Do you kill all the monsters along the way and the super chests have a high potential to drop HRs? Do you run every leg and pop all the chests and kill all monsters or how do you do AS efficiently?

 

[Luhkoh]

@Jamie I believe they just run one leg and hit all specters. See the 2018 rfl round 3 running thread for some fascinating AS reading. The big disadvantage for general play is that the specters don't drop equipment.

@ffs haha good deal. I was honestly hoping the seal glitches didnt outperform arcane just because I think arcane is a cooler run.

@sir_cyclops I don't believe playersetting switching mid run is an issue. Its killing the monsters on a different psetting than you spawned them at for better drops that's an issue. Maybe I'm misinterpreting though.

 

[maxicek]

I still think, for underpowered characters, (assuming @maxicek considers p setting switching acceptable) that doing p1 or p3 seal boss kills with p7 spawn of all the monsters in the entryway and pentagram area, will result in better runs than most places.

Honestly everything about this thread depresses me and I had kind of hoped it had sunk down into the depths of the forum never to be seen again.

I don't like the basis of this thread, but what you are proposing is not really any different than dropping player settings to kill Baal Wave 2 on a Blizz Sorc for example. I mean when you get this cheesy, what is a bit more cheese on top?

 

[ffs]

@maxicek, to avoid any confusion, there are several issues mixed up here and I'm not entirely clear on what is allowed.

Seal glitch: I avoid calling it "glitch" because it's not a glitch. It's what happens in any Diablo run after popping the last seal or killing last seal boss: (1) All enemy monsters in CS get killed and (2) "activated" monsters near the player drop items as if killed with 0 MF. The trick here is merely to increase the number of the latter by teleporting around, because people realized that in fact what matters for a monster to be "activated" is not that it is near the player, but that it was near the player within the last 5-6 seconds.

Although a bit cheesy I'd assume this is fine. Otherwise we'd have to put some kind of limit on how many monsters are allowed to be "activated" when triggering the seal which doesn't seem very practical. To a lesser degree, this could also be done without teleporting around much. For example on a map where a lot of boss packs tend to spawn near one seal, and you just pop that seal last.

Switching player settings: Seems fine to me also in general, but the issue here is different from lowering player settings to kill e.g. Baal W2 with a Blizzy as you said. What I think @sir_cyclops is referring to is this post by @Fruit, who found out this: If you do the whole run on say P4, and then switch to P7 after killing all seal bosses, apparently all monsters "activated" as described above will provide P7 drops when popping the last seal. I know you saw that discussion but just to recap.

This was also discussed for Cow runs: Spawning all cows on P4 and then killing them all on P7, while they have P4 damage and HP. So as opposed to lowering player settings to kill a Baal wave that a character can't handle very well, you don't have a symmetry between drops provided and difficulty of killing them.

Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this in any case, but I want to make sure to fully understand what is allowed and what isn't.

Thanks!

 

[sir_cyclops]

I should have been more clear. I’m actually talking about the interesting combination of these things. Spawning the monsters on p7 health (by teleporting to the pentagram on p7), then switching to p1 to kill the seal bosses, and then doing the seal glitch. And I think this is similar to baal wave switching like maxi said.

I think it’s much cheesier to do the cow example you mention, but still something I think should be allowed, even though it’s cheesy as well.

 

[maxicek]

The players thing Fruit mentioned is not allowed.

 

[ffs]

From my perspective there is a balance between builds that perform well on lower player settings (better MF capabilities) and those that perform well on higher player settings (better RF and XP capabilities).

That balance will change if it is allowed to abuse this.

I'm not saying it's absolutely terrible, but it's something to be aware of.

EDIT: Sniped by max, thanks for clarifying.

 

[T72on1]

Honestly everything about this thread depresses me and I had kind of hoped it had sunk down into the depths of the forum never to be seen again.

I don't like the basis of this thread, but what you are proposing is not really any different than dropping player settings to kill Baal Wave 2 on a Blizz Sorc for example. I mean when you get this cheesy, what is a bit more cheese on top?

QFT.

All of this might be allowed, but my stomach can't handle this much cheese at once.

 

[maxicek]

OK, here is an official clarification on this thread:

The preference is to ban the practice outright. The SPF way has always been about maximise efficiency to get the loot, not to exploit the game.

But what about if you play the game legitimately, activate all the seals and a stray Finger Mage drops a Jah - It doesn’t seem fair to say it can’t be picked up. This means a clear rule is difficult to define.

Officially the practice is discouraged and I hope people choose not to exploit this. At the very least it should be declared in your Trade Profile. I will not add it to the rules as that will propagate it.

As I said earlier, I really hope this practice dies.


I’m leaving the thread open for now - The first sign of rules debating gets it locked.

 

[Fruit]

my stomach can't handle this much cheese at once

For me it's more the tediousness of it; changing the player number frequently gets old quickly. I just wanna run around and kill some baddies! Can't be bothered typing things while I'm doing some chill runs. As for cheese, well I think we have plenty of that already. Muling off items with third-party programs so that we can keep our brilliant map (seed), I'd say that's a pretty powerful cheese (blue, probably). Various bugs and mechanics exploited by time travelers; think 1.07 uniques, crafts and gameplay bugs, 1.10 beta items, etc, etc. As for the Seal trigger, in my opinion it's cheese enough that it makes monsters drop items at all -- a pretty questionable gameplay decision.

And just for the record (@maxicek), I wasn't looking for something to exploit or anything like that, I just wanted to understand how the Seal trigger works, and happened to notice that it's a possibility.

 

[maxicek]

Clarification not required, understood already @Fruit - I appreciate understanding mechanisms is one thing and seeking to profit from it is another.

 

[Tatterson1]

@maxicek Just so I understand, the practice of teleporting around CS before popping the last seal is discouraged, even without any player setting modifications?

 

[maxicek]

@Tatterson - Correct.

 

[Jamie]

Yeah I hate changing player settings in the middle of games. More of a nuisance than I find it cheesy. Is changing wave 2 to player 1 setting for a Blizzard Sorc looked down upon? That was always something I just took for granted, changing wave to to player 1 and then changing Baal to player 3. That is probably why I don't do Baal Runs anymore, I found changing the player settings annoying.