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Vessel of Hatred

Confessions of a Glitcher: One strategy to maximize Wealth from CS

I knew that would be the remark. Which is fair enough, because yes, they both have that in common. While I don't particularly enjoy LK runs either, for some reason the CS glitching runs were even worse though. Not sure why, and maybe just a matter of not willing to learn the ropes.
 
Last edited:
maxicek said:
Not killing stuff = No XP. After a while, the XP is more important to me than the HRs. And also the item drops.
Click to expand...

I guess this has got quite a lot to do with it. While I could still use the HRs, if only for my runeword grail, it doesn't appeal to me like gaining xp for most part. The same goes for finding uniques in that regard. I still need a few items for my grail, but can't really bring myself to /p1 mf runs. That's why I love /p7 or /p8 with some 200% mf (or better if possible of course) so much. It gives xp, good chances for HRs and still a good shot at items as well.
 
T72on1 said:
I know that would be the remark. Which is fair enough, because yes, they both have that in common. While I don't particularly enjoy LK runs either, for some reason the CS glitching runs were even worse though. Not sure why, and maybe just a matter of not willing to learn the ropes.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I think people are naturally resistant to change, but I think this strategy has a lot of potential. I am very excited to see the results of RFL area round because of it.

And I haven't even done it yet. I am excited to eventually have a character who can do it. Hopefully I'll get a vex, ohm, and 5x surs in the next few weeks, and I'll be able to try my hand at it.
 
I know you weren't trying to be argumentative :).

Btw, if you are anything like me, it can be dangerous to be excited about something you want to do in D2, because others post about it. I mean, I have that all the time. Somebody posts about digging into Classic. 'Hell yeah, I should try that too !!!'. Same for old patches, odd characters, new type of chest runs. Until I try my hand at it, like recently the Act 5 special chest runs. It could hold my interest for an hour or so, and then all I wanted was get back to making new characters and grinding xp with my existing ones.

Chances that you are anything like me are small though ;).
 
T72on1 said:
I know you weren't trying to be argumentative :).

Btw, if you are anything like me, it can be dangerous to be excited about something you want to do in D2, because others post about it. I mean, I have that all the time. Somebody posts about digging into Classic. 'Hell yeah, I should try that too !!!'. Same for old patches, odd characters, new type of chest runs. Until I try my hand at it, like recently the Act 5 special chest runs. It could hold my interest for an hour or so, and then all I wanted was get back to making new characters and grinding xp with my existing ones.

Chances that you are anything like me are small though ;).
Click to expand...
Haha, maybe that's why d2 is so addictive. The allure of what other people have (or are doing) keeps you wanting to try "those new things" or get "those items". And like you said, once you have it (or have done it), you just want to do something else, haha.
 
@helvete. The runs posted were just to demonstrate the glitch, not efficiency. I agree, for one, that item ID'ing is faster in Town. In addition, I now linger at DeSeis and Infector wings to check for drops instead of returning there after. I even check over Vizier's wing before engaging Diablo, so that after killing him, I only have to scan the pentagram areas and down to the entrance.

@maxicek. I posted this in the Item Find thread, but to your point:

"No doubt in my mind that CS (@P7) is pretty much the best bang for one's buck: 1) non-seal bosses can drop any set/unique/rune in game; 2) all monsters can drop any socketable/rune; 3) Big D is capped at TC84, but drops better qualities than Meph, including Lvl 94 GCharms to reroll, and provides excellent experience pre-ancients; 4) the three seal bosses are also capped at TC84, but double drop like Pindle; and 5) the seal glitch allows one to kill 100+- monsters in about 10 seconds (i.e. the time it takes to tele from one seal, to the entrance, to the last seal)."

One can just kill three seal bosses and glitch, but CS can be run as the whole package (plus the added benefit of the glitch)...
 
Two other unsolicited tips...

1) Roll a map with at least two shrines. Increases the chances of an experience shrine for the Diablo kill. (Corrupted did this to perfection with his Hammerdin; 80 hours total to 99 if memory serves).

2) You can use densities to determine what seal to save for last, but it also helps if it has a defined backstop, instead of aiming for a landing spot. Vizier's is near the wall, while Infector's is kind of in the middle and can be more congested.
 
Agreed, usually XP runners aimed for 3 shrines in CS and 3-4 elsewhere in A1/A3. But when going for the seal trick I guess you check for loot in the spawning time, which is otherwise spent checking shrines. So probably it makes sense to look for 3 shrines in CS only. A map like that is also easier to roll than one with 6+ easily checked shrines overall. (Though 80h for 99 is way off, that’s about what the fastest Nihl running chars need for 98-99).

As @EatSleepDiablov2 said, Hammerdin is probably top choice given no immunity issues and overall fast clear speed. Aborted runs from immunes can hurt the average big time. Hammerdin is also easiest to build, very strong with rather basic gear.

Again the most interesting aspect of this to me is to abuse this for runs combining MF/RF. Slightly different to run, I’d be looking for a map with high boss density and snipe bosses between seals.

Some alternatives I’d be interested in, all of which with some kind of immunity drawback, but could make up for that perhaps:
  • Javazon (RF focus, seals + D). She is very fast at both 3 seal clears and D kill, despite Decrepify being annoying. Also room for end game optimisation in particular with 99 FCR setups. Strong and tanky Merc for occasional LIs (i.e. Might with Infinity/Andy/ebug Fortitude). Not sure if even 99 FCR is fast enough for the seal trick though.
  • Lightning Sorc (RF focus, seals + D using CB). Could be closest contender next to Hammerdin for this type of runs IMO. Tested CS a lot with her, and her disadvantage vis-à-vis Blizzy is basically down to lack of radial AoE – which is not required to snipe the seal bosses. Should be a good choice, very fast mobility and strong targeted attack.
  • With MF in mind: Some Barb with Howl to isolate bosses. He can snipe them and hork, increasing S&U drops, plus he has the ability to carry a ton of MF. Not sure which attack would work best (Berserk, Conc, WW) and, connected to this, which player settings. Should be interesting to find the best combination.
  • Good old Blizzy as @Gripphon said, though I’d likely go hybridised for De Seis.
These are on my to do list at least, once I get back to some running. ;) Generally an interesting aspect of this is that single target builds could also work in theory due to the seal trick, whereas traditionally CS was dominated by AoE chars.
 
Corrupted said:
I ended up averaging about 21 minutes per million of exp. With NM and Hell Ancients that put me at ~80 hours from 98 to 99 which is faster than most and much faster than the slower baalrunners.
Click to expand...

That's about 2.86 million/hr with both NM (self MP) and Hell Ancients available.
 
I am up to 171 diablo essences (1,711+- runs). A couple of surprising items that pop up:

Seven Ormus Robes (4 from Diablo):

Code: 
Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 385
Durability: 18 of 20
Required Level: 75
Required Strength: 77
Fingerprint: 0xfe7772b4
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+12% to Cold Skill Damage
+11% to Lightning Skill Damage
+12% to Fire Skill Damage
+3 to Thunder Storm (Sorceress Only)
+16 Defense
Regenerate Mana 12%

Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 465
Durability: 13 of 20
Required Level: 75
Required Strength: 77
Fingerprint: 0x250ebea3
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+13% to Cold Skill Damage
+11% to Lightning Skill Damage
+13% to Fire Skill Damage
+3 to Fire Wall (Sorceress Only)
+12 Defense
Regenerate Mana 11%

Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 391
Durability: 10 of 20
Required Level: 75
Required Strength: 77
Fingerprint: 0x88da563e
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+10% to Cold Skill Damage
+13% to Lightning Skill Damage
+11% to Fire Skill Damage
+3 to Inferno (Sorceress Only)
+19 Defense
Regenerate Mana 10%

Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 480
Durability: 15 of 20
Required Level: 75
Required Strength: 77
Fingerprint: 0x5cb32d37
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+15% to Cold Skill Damage
+12% to Lightning Skill Damage
+14% to Fire Skill Damage
+3 to Chilling Armor (Sorceress Only)
+20 Defense
Regenerate Mana 11%

Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 469
Durability: 12 of 20
Required Level: 75
Required Strength: 77
Fingerprint: 0xb4751530
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+12% to Cold Skill Damage
+15% to Lightning Skill Damage
+13% to Fire Skill Damage
+3 to Ice Bolt (Sorceress Only)
+11 Defense
Regenerate Mana 12%

Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 456
Durability: 10 of 20
Required Level: 75
Required Strength: 77
Fingerprint: 0xb1468c9e
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+15% to Cold Skill Damage
+12% to Lightning Skill Damage
+12% to Fire Skill Damage
+3 to Nova (Sorceress Only)
+20 Defense
Regenerate Mana 11%

Ormus' Robes
Dusk Shroud
Defense: 390
Durability: 12 of 20
Required Level: 75
Required Strength: 77
Fingerprint: 0x569fbd8c
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+20% Faster Cast Rate
+15% to Cold Skill Damage
+12% to Lightning Skill Damage
+15% to Fire Skill Damage
+3 to Warmth (Sorceress Only)
+20 Defense
Regenerate Mana 12%

Socket the Nova robe for self-wielding Infinity sorc for cows?

Thirteen Rainbow Facets (5 from Diablo):

Code: 
Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x17ab6cff
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 51 Poison Nova when you Die
Adds 37 Poison Damage Over 2 Secs (50 Frames)
-4% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+5% to Poison Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x7af6ed0
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
Unidentified
100% Chance to cast level 23 Venom when you Level-Up
Adds 37 Poison Damage Over 2 Secs (50 Frames)
-5% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+3% to Poison Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x492d11a9
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 31 Meteor when you Die
Adds 17 - 45 Fire Damage
-4% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+4% to Fire Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x929d3447
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 47 Chain Lightning when you Die
Adds 1 - 74 Lightning Damage
-5% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+5% to Lightning Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x125fb481
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 29 Blaze when you Level-Up
Adds 17 - 45 Fire Damage
-4% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+3% to Fire Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x72dc8beb
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 37 Blizzard when you Die
Adds 24 - 38 Cold Damage Over 0 Secs (3 Frames)
-3% to Enemy Cold Resistance
+5% to Cold Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x5d0987ee
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 29 Blaze when you Level-Up
Adds 17 - 45 Fire Damage
-3% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+3% to Fire Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0xbc1f1262
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 51 Poison Nova when you Die
Adds 37 Poison Damage Over 2 Secs (50 Frames)
-3% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+3% to Poison Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x29603404
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 23 Venom when you Level-Up
Adds 37 Poison Damage Over 2 Secs (50 Frames)
-5% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+3% to Poison Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x3b19117b
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 29 Blaze when you Level-Up
Adds 17 - 45 Fire Damage
-3% to Enemy Fire Resistance
+5% to Fire Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x26b47153
Item Level: 85
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 23 Venom when you Level-Up
Adds 37 Poison Damage Over 2 Secs (50 Frames)
-5% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+3% to Poison Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0xb6ff9063
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 51 Poison Nova when you Die
Adds 37 Poison Damage Over 2 Secs (50 Frames)
-3% to Enemy Poison Resistance
+3% to Poison Skill Damage

Rainbow Facet
Jewel
Required Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x1938399c
Item Level: 94
Version: Expansion 1.10+
100% Chance to cast level 47 Chain Lightning when you Die
Adds 1 - 74 Lightning Damage
-4% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+4% to Lightning Skill Damage
 
The Thunder Storm one is a moral imperative to try and make a Thunder Storm Sorc work ;).
 
With RFL round 1 done and my Sorc being more or less ready for round 2, I tested the (purely) rune finding capabilities of this strategy a bit with round 3 in mind. :)

Numbers:
To test this I recorded and counted 10 runs worth of monsters, with these results:

View attachment 13161

So in fact similar numbers to Vizier-only runs with Blizzy or P7 Pit Java. So definitely not bad judging by these initial numbers. Probably numbers could improve a little with minor tweaks here and there, but in general it's quite far away from areas like Cows and AS.

Gameplay video:


Apart from the Vizier seal, the most efficient kills in terms of rune drops with this strategy are those by popping the last seal. So I figured it's best to roll a map where the density is mostly in beginning and center areas of CS, then kill seal bosses ASAP and don't bother much if clusters in between spawn occasionally.

Gear used:
CoA with MPK/-req/adds jewels
Enigma
Hoto
2/20 craft amulet
35 Spirit
Verdungo's Hearty Cord
SoJ
FCR/life/resist ring
WT
Magefist

Merc: Defiance with Reaper's, Treachery, Delirium

Build:
20 BH
20 Vigor
20 Concentration
20 Blessed aim
Pre-reqs
Rest HS (max in 1-2 levels)

I initially went with more typical Insight/Forti/Andy setup for Merc. It involved less potting, but since I wanted to telestomp seal bosses to maximize seal glitch drops, it was not tough enough. Neither for Merc nor Pally. The switch to Delirium + Reaper's meant popping a mana potion every once in a while. But the added survivability was extremely welcome, more than worth it in terms safety and consistency for more aggressive (and thus faster) running.

Same considerations apply to Paladin gear. First I tried with a more standard setup (Shako, 2/10 ammy, Arachnid Mesh etc.), but I felt I needed more damage reduction for tanking at De Seis and Infector seals. The CoA was previously in use on an older, Insight-less Fishymancer, hence the MPK jewels in it. It came in very handy as it delivered all the stats I wanted: +6 MPK was good since I went with Reaper's Merc, and the resists and %DR helped a lot for the two more difficult seal bosses.

Since I had a 2/20 FCR Paladin ammy available, I went ahead and dropped one +1 skill ring to also included Verdungo's for even more PDR, for a total of 35%, plus extra Vit/FHR. (Btw how cool is RFL in allowing me to use all of my 2/20 amulets? ;))

So in general as expected, it's a very efficient strategy, but not on par with the "big four" of LK/Trav/Cows/AS when it comes to RF only. I will continue to explore it for combined RF/MF though, still think it might be an extremely good (possibly best) approach for that type of running.
 
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