- Oct 3, 2005
- 7,678
- 27
- 48
Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
- Thread starter KremBanan
- Start date
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
Just rule of thumb never to listen to CDM, makes your character crap.
"what should I do with my new COA?"
"ORT SOL IT!!!!"
yep its true...
Just rule of thumb never to listen to CDM, makes your character crap.
"what should I do with my new COA?"
"ORT SOL IT!!!!"
yep its true...
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
i thought of this all a while back and could have sworn at one point that i'd typed it all out, but have gone looking through my posts (nearly 8k now whew) and cant find it. by the way i found out today that my hurt thumb is in fact a broken thumb so this is going to take a while to get it all out.
a long time ago i read a pretty cool post about mf. in it the poster talked about how you should evaluate each item of your gear alone and compare how much mf you can get vs the gain you could get from a non mf item. now you really should also take the long view of how all of your gear works together as well how each piece works alone. a good example of this comparison is gloves. say you're a sorc (doesnt matter what kind) and you're comparing magefists vs chancies. say using mages gets you to the next break point on fcr or that you run out of mana and just that little bit of regen keeps you going. using mages gets you more bang for your buck than a measly 40 mf. now same sorc you're thinking of using tal's armor but think viper may be the way to go. you look at what they give you and see the huge chunk of mf it offers while viper only gets you one skill and some res. since you're outfitting an mf sorc, you get more bang for your item slot by using tals. enough of this sorc crap, what i'm driving at is comparing items singly by seeing how many of the mods give you what you need vs what your goals are. i think it's time to compare.
since my personal favorite jav shield is spirit i'm going to compare spirit to phoenix. they both go in a monarch and are terrible blocking shields so there are a few areas that we can just ignore for the sake of this exercise. i'm going to compare only the mods and not the cost since if you're thinking about phoenix you'll have the funds for nearly any shield. here are the combatants:
i'm going to strip out what i feel are unecessary for a typical pvm javazon and i'm also going to assume that most of the rest of the gear would stay the same regardless of your shield (with some exceptions that i'll note). keep in mind that this is pvm.
note: i took out the edam% on phoenix and the fcr on spirit despite there being instances of both being useful. you could have the ed% on phoenix be helpful in killing of light immunes. the fcr on spirit could help you tele if you're using enigma (shudder). i dont think of either of these two mods being a high point for a typical javazon however. as with the rest of this post, feel free to disagree, but also note that i'm right and you're wrong :tongue:.
as you can see neither offers a whole hell of a lot to a javazon. most of the res and defensive mods i took out as i see a javazon being primarily a ranger. also the defensive mods arent really all that great and if you're wanting an "in your face" shield i'd not use either of these shields.
the life went out since they're pretty close to the same amount anyway. with all that gone we're left with 2skills/~100 mana vs redemption. which offers more to a javazon? i think it's fairly obvious. redemption gets you life and mana back, whoopie doo. rangers dont need life gain typically as they're...wait for it... ranged. stay alive by staying back and not getting hit. we all know that one of the skills that makes a javazon a javazon is fury. it is hugely mana intensive. i propose that the only "good" mod on phoenix is half countered by the giant amount of mana you get from spirit. the other half of this complete killing of phoenix for a javazon is one or more of the following things; bigger pool (you gain mana back faster the more you have), leech (not really ideal imo since you have to hit something to leech it), massive regen (read: meditation), or my personal favorite, mana per kill. with as little as 3 mana per kill you can take over the rest of what redemption can offer. i know i said that we're comparing just the shield slot, but being able to do the one thing that phoenix offers with one or two little mods that are easy enough to find on gear makes up for breaking my rule. one final option which many people dont like is pots. quaff a mana pot. i know you think it means your build is inherently flawed, but it doesnt. how many games do you go through without using what's in your belt. it's there, use it! otherwise you may as well go around with nothing in it.
in closing i'll bring it back to the original concept; bang for your buck (item slot). which item gets you more or leaves you with enough flexibility to swap out other gear?
ps. use phoenix on switch you tools! it'll get you the same thing! peace out
i thought of this all a while back and could have sworn at one point that i'd typed it all out, but have gone looking through my posts (nearly 8k now whew) and cant find it. by the way i found out today that my hurt thumb is in fact a broken thumb so this is going to take a while to get it all out.
a long time ago i read a pretty cool post about mf. in it the poster talked about how you should evaluate each item of your gear alone and compare how much mf you can get vs the gain you could get from a non mf item. now you really should also take the long view of how all of your gear works together as well how each piece works alone. a good example of this comparison is gloves. say you're a sorc (doesnt matter what kind) and you're comparing magefists vs chancies. say using mages gets you to the next break point on fcr or that you run out of mana and just that little bit of regen keeps you going. using mages gets you more bang for your buck than a measly 40 mf. now same sorc you're thinking of using tal's armor but think viper may be the way to go. you look at what they give you and see the huge chunk of mf it offers while viper only gets you one skill and some res. since you're outfitting an mf sorc, you get more bang for your item slot by using tals. enough of this sorc crap, what i'm driving at is comparing items singly by seeing how many of the mods give you what you need vs what your goals are. i think it's time to compare.
since my personal favorite jav shield is spirit i'm going to compare spirit to phoenix. they both go in a monarch and are terrible blocking shields so there are a few areas that we can just ignore for the sake of this exercise. i'm going to compare only the mods and not the cost since if you're thinking about phoenix you'll have the funds for nearly any shield. here are the combatants:
Code:
Phoenix
100% Chance To Cast level 40 Blaze When You Level-up
40% Chance To Cast Level 22 Firestorm On Striking
Level 10-15 Redemption Aura When Equipped (varies)
+350-400 Defense Vs. Missile (varies)
+350-400% Enhanced Damage (varies)
-28% To Enemy Fire Resistance
+50 To Life
+5% To Maximum Lightning Resist
+10% To Maximum Fire Resist
+15-21 Fire Absorb (varies)
Code:
Spirit
+2 To All Skills
+25-35% Faster Cast Rate (varies)
+55% Faster Hit Recovery
+250 Defense Vs. Missile
+22 To Vitality
+89-112 To Mana (varies)
Cold Resist +35%
Lightning Resist +35%
Poison Resist +35%
+3-8 Magic Absorb (varies)
Attacker Takes Damage of 14i'm going to strip out what i feel are unecessary for a typical pvm javazon and i'm also going to assume that most of the rest of the gear would stay the same regardless of your shield (with some exceptions that i'll note). keep in mind that this is pvm.
Code:
Phoenix
Level 10-15 Redemption Aura When Equipped (varies)
Code:
Spirit
+2 To All Skills
+89-112 To Mana (varies)note: i took out the edam% on phoenix and the fcr on spirit despite there being instances of both being useful. you could have the ed% on phoenix be helpful in killing of light immunes. the fcr on spirit could help you tele if you're using enigma (shudder). i dont think of either of these two mods being a high point for a typical javazon however. as with the rest of this post, feel free to disagree, but also note that i'm right and you're wrong :tongue:.
as you can see neither offers a whole hell of a lot to a javazon. most of the res and defensive mods i took out as i see a javazon being primarily a ranger. also the defensive mods arent really all that great and if you're wanting an "in your face" shield i'd not use either of these shields.
the life went out since they're pretty close to the same amount anyway. with all that gone we're left with 2skills/~100 mana vs redemption. which offers more to a javazon? i think it's fairly obvious. redemption gets you life and mana back, whoopie doo. rangers dont need life gain typically as they're...wait for it... ranged. stay alive by staying back and not getting hit. we all know that one of the skills that makes a javazon a javazon is fury. it is hugely mana intensive. i propose that the only "good" mod on phoenix is half countered by the giant amount of mana you get from spirit. the other half of this complete killing of phoenix for a javazon is one or more of the following things; bigger pool (you gain mana back faster the more you have), leech (not really ideal imo since you have to hit something to leech it), massive regen (read: meditation), or my personal favorite, mana per kill. with as little as 3 mana per kill you can take over the rest of what redemption can offer. i know i said that we're comparing just the shield slot, but being able to do the one thing that phoenix offers with one or two little mods that are easy enough to find on gear makes up for breaking my rule. one final option which many people dont like is pots. quaff a mana pot. i know you think it means your build is inherently flawed, but it doesnt. how many games do you go through without using what's in your belt. it's there, use it! otherwise you may as well go around with nothing in it.
in closing i'll bring it back to the original concept; bang for your buck (item slot). which item gets you more or leaves you with enough flexibility to swap out other gear?
ps. use phoenix on switch you tools! it'll get you the same thing! peace out
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
Can we get a show of hands of those who read all of what cdm said?....yep thought so
Can we get a show of hands of those who read all of what cdm said?....yep thought so
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
eff you. by the time i was done, i hurt. you damn well better read it.
eff you. by the time i was done, i hurt. you damn well better read it.
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
You are forgetting the ctc fire storm that delay your attacks.
P.S. Why do so difficult? It's all about flavour. Some like the redemption and some need it. Others don't and prefer different mods to gain the same survivability.
You are forgetting the ctc fire storm that delay your attacks.
P.S. Why do so difficult? It's all about flavour. Some like the redemption and some need it. Others don't and prefer different mods to gain the same survivability.
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
I did. Was an interesting read and I agree with CDM :wave:
I did. Was an interesting read and I agree with CDM :wave:
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
Yeah, i'm guilty of reading it all aswell - part in sympathy for the poorly thumb, and part because it's something i tend to do aswell. What's "best item" for you usually depends on what other items you are wearing in different slots and ofc the aim of the char you are gearing.
Yeah, i'm guilty of reading it all aswell - part in sympathy for the poorly thumb, and part because it's something i tend to do aswell. What's "best item" for you usually depends on what other items you are wearing in different slots and ofc the aim of the char you are gearing.
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
personally i think the perfect shield for a pvm javazon is lidless. it's got great ~4 mana per kill and 1 skill (among other things). a socket lets you customize it a bit as well. i also like how amazinly powerful faceted shields are.
personally i think the perfect shield for a pvm javazon is lidless. it's got great ~4 mana per kill and 1 skill (among other things). a socket lets you customize it a bit as well. i also like how amazinly powerful faceted shields are.
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
+mana on Spirit is worth counting but +300-400 ED, and hence +300+400% bonus to your mana leeching, is not?
Plus, even though some of the mods are "situational", it is those few situations where your zon is actually in any appreciable risk of danger - Diablo/Dclone or Gloams or Nihlathak, e.g. - where the fire absorb and max fire/light resist and Redemption, respectively, actually make a big difference over Spirit.
Not saying that they outshine the +2 skills, necessarily, just think your underlying assumptions may be partially faulty
+mana on Spirit is worth counting but +300-400 ED, and hence +300+400% bonus to your mana leeching, is not?
Plus, even though some of the mods are "situational", it is those few situations where your zon is actually in any appreciable risk of danger - Diablo/Dclone or Gloams or Nihlathak, e.g. - where the fire absorb and max fire/light resist and Redemption, respectively, actually make a big difference over Spirit.
Not saying that they outshine the +2 skills, necessarily, just think your underlying assumptions may be partially faulty
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
I would just consider the cheap vs expensive.
Cheap:
Spirit Shield / Insight Merc
Expensive:
Phoenix / Infinty Merc
Personally this ladder is the 1st time I've been able to get the expensive setup and I prefer it. My torch already has ctc firestorm. The dual firestorms can be annoying when trying to quickly throw a lot. Overall I enjoy the 'fireworks'. I got in the habit of right clicking multiple times instead of holding it down.
My setup is Upped Titans/ Phoenix and Thunder strokes/ Spirit on a swap.
I would just consider the cheap vs expensive.
Cheap:
Spirit Shield / Insight Merc
Expensive:
Phoenix / Infinty Merc
Personally this ladder is the 1st time I've been able to get the expensive setup and I prefer it. My torch already has ctc firestorm. The dual firestorms can be annoying when trying to quickly throw a lot. Overall I enjoy the 'fireworks'. I got in the habit of right clicking multiple times instead of holding it down.
My setup is Upped Titans/ Phoenix and Thunder strokes/ Spirit on a swap.
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
I hate anything getting in the way of my overkills, spammage is a must I say!
ctc firestorm on phoenix is too annoying, though using it on switch is always an option as cdm pointed out, just as it is on some other chars (thinking of the mf/fcr/mana/infinity dillema of lightning sorcs).
I hate anything getting in the way of my overkills, spammage is a must I say!
ctc firestorm on phoenix is too annoying, though using it on switch is always an option as cdm pointed out, just as it is on some other chars (thinking of the mf/fcr/mana/infinity dillema of lightning sorcs).
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
not worth counting, know why? because everyone who uses phoenix says something to the effect of "well you have redemption so you wont need any leech".
there's hardly a monster affect in the game where the fire absorb would be useful. only real threats fire wise are exploding corpses and those you will get hurt by the physical effect reguardless. in those situations stormshield wins hands down imo since it offfers both resists and a big chunk of dr%
cost wasnt something i care about. it's a truely easy choice if it is. no, i left it off like i said because for it truely to become an option, you have to have the runes handy. even if "price was no object" you have better options. a faceted monarch is loads better than any shield for sheer power.
+mana on Spirit is worth counting but +300-400 ED, and hence +300+400% bonus to your mana leeching, is not?
Plus, even though some of the mods are "situational", it is those few situations where your zon is actually in any appreciable risk of danger - Diablo/Dclone or Gloams or Nihlathak, e.g. - where the fire absorb and max fire/light resist and Redemption, respectively, actually make a big difference over Spirit.
Not saying that they outshine the +2 skills, necessarily, just think your underlying assumptions may be partially faulty
not worth counting, know why? because everyone who uses phoenix says something to the effect of "well you have redemption so you wont need any leech".
there's hardly a monster affect in the game where the fire absorb would be useful. only real threats fire wise are exploding corpses and those you will get hurt by the physical effect reguardless. in those situations stormshield wins hands down imo since it offfers both resists and a big chunk of dr%
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
My javazone used a sanctuary and a phoenix. Sanctuary since getting good resistances was a pain, and phoenix for redemption.
I liked phoenix more, but my playstyle is pretty laid back compared to some so I didn't really mind the occasional firestorms and being slowed down a little at times.
The idea of pretty much never chugging any pots does appeal to me
My javazone used a sanctuary and a phoenix. Sanctuary since getting good resistances was a pain, and phoenix for redemption.
I liked phoenix more, but my playstyle is pretty laid back compared to some so I didn't really mind the occasional firestorms and being slowed down a little at times.
The idea of pretty much never chugging any pots does appeal to me
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
in my experience with phoenix on my java, i loved everything about it except for 1 mod which, imo, makes it completely unusable; ctc firestorm. i've a had a few deaths while poking bosses with CS as a result of the firestorm going off. it was also really annoying when it procs when you've built a nice big mob and have to run away from said angry mob while you wait till you can attack again.
spirit was an improvement, but a stormshield made me nearly invincible, and is by far my favorite. i wanted to socket it an ias m/k jewel, but never found one before i started a new char.
in my experience with phoenix on my java, i loved everything about it except for 1 mod which, imo, makes it completely unusable; ctc firestorm. i've a had a few deaths while poking bosses with CS as a result of the firestorm going off. it was also really annoying when it procs when you've built a nice big mob and have to run away from said angry mob while you wait till you can attack again.
spirit was an improvement, but a stormshield made me nearly invincible, and is by far my favorite. i wanted to socket it an ias m/k jewel, but never found one before i started a new char.
Re: Ok then crawlingdeadman, whats your problem
yeah...leave it to you guys to turn a funny OT CDM bashing thread into a serious discussion about shields
My java wears an HOZ.
yeah...leave it to you guys to turn a funny OT CDM bashing thread into a serious discussion about shields
My java wears an HOZ.
Google