New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows? ifra

[Kijya]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

Level 1 strafe may end up in the lvl 8 region after +skills on many builds, and I'd say it's plenty. Amazons can pump strafe for a bit more off-weapon ed and some more min arrows, but that's not such a big deal imo. The big question would be what maximum IAS breakpoints other classes could hit on the follow-up arrows.

That being said I'd actually rather see multi as an oskill. If treachery had brought bust of speed to multizons instead of fade ... well how about bringing multi to burst of speed and venom ...


As for a valk replacement, don't forget the druids bear. :cloud9:

 

[NASE]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

How about a fires strafe (instead of fires exploding arrows)? And then give magic arrow as a o-skill.
that way, you can't raise your level of strafe, severely nerving it's effect while you offer a possible PI solution to a physical build that can't mele a PI. (Not sure we want this though).

 

[crawlingdeadman1]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

we already have slvl 20 magic arrow on wws.

 

[KremBanan]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

If we give a non-zon bow strafe no one will ever make a bowzon again...why would they? what do bowzons have skill wise that benefits them?
*
*
That is why there can never be strafe on a regular bow.

You convinced me. I changed my mind, Im now against +strafe on non-amazon bows

 

[korialstraz]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

Not really, how much enchantress have you seen the last year? A combination of strafe with exploding arrows, something for spread out groups and something for packed groups could really make the builds much more interesting.
Heck, even guided arrows would make it more interesting. Right now, people laugh when they a sorcerer with a crossbow or a bow. That could very well change with the right bow.

@ SlainByPain: if you want some thing can compete with faith in a pvp environment, you will have something completely overpowered in pvm. Or you should already build it around poison.

You don't see many enchantress builds because they are not as effective as all the others. People generally want to play powerfull builds, and if it's not people won't play it. And those who do probably don't play in 8 player games, or even with any at all, since your killing speed will be reduced even more. Although the right bow could ofc change that. But wouldn't it then border in being OP? :scratchchin:

If we give a non-zon bow strafe no one will ever make a bowzon again...why would they? what do bowzons have skill wise that benefits them?

Okey... As mentioned before zealpalas are not obsolete because of Passion, neither is sorcs due to enigma, or barbs because of CTA. It will add another element to the game, not ruin the amazon.

You convinced me. I changed my mind, Im now against +strafe on non-amazon bows

I hope that was sarcasm :nod:

 

[KremBanan]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

It wasnt sarcasm

I want the amazon-skills to be for the amazons \.

 

[korialstraz]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

Hmm. Well I could say the same for sorc but. Well to each his own I guess. It would be nice imo though. Either that or give sorc ww skill :devil:

 

[crawlingdeadman1]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

i've made several ranged enchantreses. to my way of thinking it's the only sorc build worth a ****.

 

[droid]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

It wasnt sarcasm

I want the amazon-skills to be for the amazons \.

Well then, fair is fair, give Amp back to the necros, and Atma's will instead have a CtC Inner Sight. How you like that?

 

[5zigen]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

Well then, fair is fair, give Amp back to the necros, and Atma's will instead have a CtC Inner Sight. How you like that?

It's a little different. Aside from the CTC difference, suppose there was a +1 strafe oskill bow.

The main problem would be paladins imo, because paladins with fana would probably eclipse amazons in damage because of the way it is setup.

With a paladin, you could have strafe, with fanat + might + conc. That is likely to eclipse amazon strafe with either fanat, or with might + conc.

I think +multi would be much better overall in terms of balance.

 

[tinncann25]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

I think I made quite a stir with my post.

to korialstraz and to droid:

I think strafe is so essential to bow builds that it will stop bowzons from being unique. I think it is comparable to assassins light sentry, necromancers skeletons, paladin's hammer+concentration, barbarian's ww+weapon mastery, druid's shapeshift, and nothing is comparable in the sorc tree. Because strafe defines a bowazon, it is its bread and butter and knife and beverage that washes it down. The skills above if given to all classes would be terrible to die-hards of that character, though I think other people may find it enjoyable.

As much as I don't want to see a +1 strafe bow I would still be excited to play some builds that would utilize it

Assassin:
Death Sentry
Shadow master
Venom
Burst of Speed
-Running around killing stuff extremely fast with strafe+venom then CE from DS

Necromancer:
Skeletons
curses
-It is the 'other' damage element that summon necros have been lacking. Poison is too often resisted in hell and bone can't reach its max damage. Imagine summons and a necro in the back spraying arrows (I know there is some kinda necro-crossbow)

Barbarian
leap
iron skin
improved speed
-Get some kind of knockback and just leap around blasting arrows. Prolly not too potent, but should be fun.

Sorc
enchant/fire mastery
meteor/hydra + synergies
- pop some hydras or cast meteor then spray strafe. It is cookie cutter, but strafe + enchant thats awesome (put some melee sorc gear on that)mmmm-nasty

Druid
summons
armageddon
- just seems natural to wear a bow with a druid

Paladin
fanaticism
- this seems kinda bland

 

[NASE]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

It wasnt sarcasm

I want the amazon-skills to be for the amazons \.

I can't remember anyone nagging about valk oskills on harmony and critical strike oskills on peaces. So I guess it's not that much of a problem when done not-wrong.

The main problem would be paladins imo, because paladins with fana would probably eclipse amazons in damage because of the way it is setup.

Not if the damage on the bow is low. If needed, throw in some negative enhanced damage. Then, he'll be solely depending on charms. And I don't think he can come up to pace that way (if not, we indeed have a problem).

I think +multi would be much better overall in terms of balance.

I don't think so. Multi takes much more advantage from additional ias source, making paladins even more a thread. And, multi is directly linked to normal breakpoints making 7 fpa possible for other builds (where strafe uses different breakpoints that can be chance separate).

 

[5zigen]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

I don't think so. Multi takes much more advantage from additional ias source, making paladins even more a thread. And, multi is directly linked to normal breakpoints making 7 fpa possible for other builds (where strafe uses different breakpoints that can be chance separate).

Oskills are fine when not wrong, but the difference between strafe and MS is this: At lvl 1 strafe, it only takes a few + skills to hit 11 arrows. At level 1 MS, you cant even come close to an amazon that has highish multi.

Even if you went all out you could get MS up to level 8 or 11 (11 if you go 2x bk + anni). And that would take a huge sacrifice in damage.

 

[Kijya]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

And, multi is directly linked to normal breakpoints making 7 fpa possible for other builds (where strafe uses different breakpoints that can be chance separate).

Nope, other builds cannot reach 7 fpa, they've got max bowspeed caps at:

assassin: 9 fpa
Barbarian: 8 fpa
druid: 9 fpa
paladin: 9 fpa
necromancer: 10 fpa
sorceress: 9 fpa
(german calc values)

A barbarian would come close but he's quite lacking in skills to boost the damage of the bow so don't think he'd be popular.

Sins, sorcs and possibly paladins are the ones who could benefit from +multi. Foremost sins I'd say since sorcs already have explosive arrows for their enchant while bowsins at best have guided arrows.

 

[korialstraz]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

I think I made quite a stir with my post.

to korialstraz and to droid:

I think strafe is so essential to bow builds that it will stop bowzons from being unique. I think it is comparable to assassins light sentry, necromancers skeletons, paladin's hammer+concentration, barbarian's ww+weapon mastery, druid's shapeshift, and nothing is comparable in the sorc tree. Because strafe defines a bowazon, it is its bread and butter and knife and beverage that washes it down. The skills above if given to all classes would be terrible to die-hards of that character, though I think other people may find it enjoyable.

As much as I don't want to see a +1 strafe bow I would still be excited to play some builds that would utilize it

I can agree strafe is very essential to a bowzon. From my limited experience it seems the bow tree have fewer viable builds than several other characters. But still as you say it would be very exciting to see the possibilities that comes with a bow that has strafe or multi as an oskill :nod:

 

[tinncann25]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

I can agree strafe is very essential to a bowzon. From my limited experience it seems the bow tree have fewer viable builds than several other characters. But still as you say it would be very exciting to see the possibilities that comes with a bow that has strafe or multi as an oskill :nod:

Well as an economics major I have to say I would not like to see strafe become a non-zon skill. If strafe is no longer a Bowzon only skill it is likely those who enjoy strafe will shift to playing other characters. As people switch to different characters bowazons who used to use strafe will be less in demand. As demand decreases the closest substitute (assuming there is some kind of common interest in playing this female jungle character) will be the javazon. Increase in the number of javazons will inevitable increase the price of gear and thus making it harder for me to make my Jav v Jav javazon (174 FHR, no d/a/e, 99ias, stacked light resist) :scratchchin:. So +1 strafe = no.

-havent started the java yet...but its gona be good... haha

 

[NASE]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

It can work the other way too.

Allowing other classes to taste a weaker version of strafe might encourage people to play the real version. The decreasing the number of javazons and decreasing the cost of a javazon gear.


P.S. And why no d/a/e? You want to out stun them or something?

 

[droid]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

to korialstraz and to droid:

I think strafe is so essential to bow builds that it will stop bowzons from being unique. I think it is comparable to assassins light sentry, necromancers skeletons, paladin's hammer+concentration, barbarian's ww+weapon mastery, druid's shapeshift, and nothing is comparable in the sorc tree.

Umm...again, Zeal is pretty fundamental to the Zealot, yet we have Passion and its not a problem. And, taking from your examples, Assas have claw mastery and WW from Chaos. Beast lets any class go bear-form. And sorc skills and necro skellies are only powerful when they're synergized - much like Bowazons synergize with 100% Pierce, high CS%, and high AR, which again off-class strafers wouldnt get.

And even if you got it up to 9 after +skills, while it'd fire at up to 10 targets per volley, it'd only fire 3 arrows guaranteed minimum, which is nigh on useless versus bosses and elites, or even vs small packs in full games; you'd be spamming 3-shot Strafes twice a second. And it'd be in a bow, which means you cant use a shield with it - ie, no Homunculus for necros, no Spirit for sorcs, no Exile for pallies, no Stormshield, etc. etc.

Like others have said, if its only 150-200% ED, that will prevent it from becoming a grossly overpowered instant-bowazon-kit. Even a Pally with fanat wouldnt be able to reach the same breakpoints or base damage of a true bowazon with a WF, or her tactical utility. And only a handful of non-zon skills even work with ranged weapons, and of those, some dont even benefit as much as they do in melee (ie, Sorc double-mastery bug). You'd have to trade higher damage and other useful mods in a weapon+shield combo for strafe+more moderate damage.

 

[crawlingdeadman1]

Re: New Patch: Do We Dare Hope For New Unique Elite Bows?

Well as an economics major I have to say I would not like to see strafe become a non-zon skill. If strafe is no longer a Bowzon only skill it is likely those who enjoy strafe will shift to playing other characters. As people switch to different characters bowazons who used to use strafe will be less in demand. As demand decreases the closest substitute (assuming there is some kind of common interest in playing this female jungle character) will be the javazon. Increase in the number of javazons will inevitable increase the price of gear and thus making it harder for me to make my Jav v Jav javazon (174 FHR, no d/a/e, 99ias, stacked light resist) :scratchchin:. So +1 strafe = no.

-havent started the java yet...but its gona be good... haha

i'd think you'd want this. aside from the expense, you finally get the duels you're always *****ing about not getting