I just tried clearing wave 1+2 at p1 and i feel dumb for not trying this earlier...
Runs are much saver and almost 10 sec faster now. And also much less tiersome since clearing wave 2 gets really annoying after some runs. Wave 2 is no danger at all anymore and the exp seems to be almost the same as on p8.
@Pax1990 probably someone has asked this before since you've been running Baal for a while, but are you using (maxed) War Cry, casting it (1) right before each wave lands and (2) between whirls every 3-4 seconds, without releasing right mouse button? That is a crucial technique for Baal running WW Barb which makes things 90% more comfortable in comparison to not using WC. In particular for wave 2 and wave 5 I can't imagine running without it. The only wave that can be annoying is Lister really, because that occasional random mana burning hit from Mr Lister himself can screw things up. But it rarely happens, and at least now with HC Barb I just S&E when it does.
@ffs yea iam using war cry but not maxed. I put points into it until I got 5sec stun duration. Iam using it when a wave spawns and only then. casting it during combat slows things down and when i stop whirling and leeching things get dangerous.
Hm Iam not sure how this technique works. I keep pressing my left mouse button to ww and spam war cry on the right mouse button and then it casts during whirls? does this work with potions aswell? I thought I have to stop completly using ww and then other actions work.
oh and i feel like i get mana burn lister 4-5 times out of 10 runs. and if not lister then wave 2
Been running some more with Revenge. Currently ~93.5 and back to some Baal running, but having farmed Meph & Andy for a bit these last few days as well.
Shocker: Complaining worked yet again, as the next white PB that dropped after my last post did roll 5os, enabling him to make his second Grief:
Average roll again, and luckily that ugly IAS roll doesn't matter for Baal runs. I have the runes for one more Grief roll, but haven't found any PBs since.
Baal runs currently looking like this:
Several things went wrong in that run, but didn't bother recording another one. @Pax1990 at least it somewhat shows what I mean with WC use. I'm not using WW on left mouse button but on right one, where you can alternate between WW and WC without releasing it. I made it a habit on HC to spam WC a bit more (especially with GFace over Arreat's) so that the different waves and overall runs are uniformly safe and to ease the routine. It is a bit excessive some times, but on the other hand it results in more Decrepify uptime, so I'm not even sure if I lose time by that at all. But on SC when min-maxing more, normally I don't it quite as often.
Current gear, also shown in the end of the vid:
Gface
Enigma MP
2x Grief PB
2x Hoto switch
SoE (8/11/10)
Raven
AR, LL, life, resist blood craft ring
FCR, ML, str, dex, resist caster craft amulet
Goblin Toe
LoH & swapping in Gravepalm (188 ED) from inventory for W2
Might Merc: Andy's, Reaper's, Treachery
Inventory: Various sharp, fine, life, cold dmg, resist charms
Decided to run some more Baal for now – as long as I'm not bored I should do those runs, because I will definitely get bored with them at some point. Let's hope I don't kill him until 94, and should we make it there, I'll then re-evaluate whether to continue Baal runs or go into MF mode.
S&Us
After hitting 93 he took a break from Baal before to go on a Meph + Andy killing spree. Using WW but with ~400 MF gear. After all he's still looking for some MF/caster build stuff, as well as items that improve his WW gear.
In general S&U drops really continue to be quite useful, HLW remains only unique I'd be truly excited about. But I definitely can't complain on the S&U front, for a change given things's like Mang Song's and Bane Ash (both from Baal!)... Useful drops for himself included included GFace, Arach (so glad this one dropped early), 4LL BKWB, and 30 MF Nagel (his second).
Screenshots of these and others:
Oh and I should note he's used his first socket quest on Shako. I may be annoyed at some point when using unsocketed gear for all those Baal runs, but in the end he's meant to be an MF char, should he live.
Also forgot to mention in the last post that he had previously found Gul, Sur, and a rare Necro 2/20 circlet in the Pit. As for unes, he has enough for a third Grief roll and is one Sur/Ber short of making Beast – but otherwise is rune stash is pretty much depleted, with just a handful of Pul-Ist range runes remaining apart from the above.
Finally, the crafting front: Well, first 70 caster amulets didn't yield much of long-term use for him. There were a couple of decent +2 or +1/15+ ones for future HC chars, and a (relatively) plain 20 FCR one. Currently using the one shown in the vid above because of its juicy stats, res and ML fitting the rest of his gear nicely. Been crafting a few blood rings, too, also using one in the vid just because it fits well with his current gear. Nothing godly yet on either front.
I spent most of last weekend rushing my HC amazon through normal and nightmare difficulty. Spent some time farming NM Mephisto before entering Hell, until he dropped a Titan's Revenge at the least. He was very giving at the start, dropping a Gull, and a few runs after War Travellers. Then it took a few hundred more runs or so to get a pair of Titans. I really wanted to get this drop out of the way, since it does so much for the build. I can feel like I'm contributing by tickling lightning immune enemies with it, and it will prevent the urge to use a Harmony bow when I start running LK. I also normally farm NM Mephisto for survival gear for the merc, but he had to settle with just a Tal Rasha's mask, as I equipped the Rockstopper, and Mephisto did not give out any Duriel's Shells, Vamp Gazes, or even Rockfleeces. With a level 17 valkyrie, I could afford to let him bite the dust as much as he wanted.
I blazed through Hell difficulty as well, often putting myself in dangerous situations instead of calmly scouting ahead with Decoy. I cleared all the way to the Frigid Highlands waypoint somewhere around level 77 or 78. I then ran Eldritch until level 85, and now I will let her rest for a couple of months or so while I focus on my tournament characters. I had originally planned on trying to outfit her as much and as fast as possible to run Hell Cows for the spring RFO, but I'd really be stretching my limits there and would probably end up getting her killed in the rush to finish in time. Plus, I don't have a council runner ready anyway, so I can wait until next year.
I had a blast getting her ready to go, and can't wait to get her all powered up. Needless to say, I'm quite comfortable with this build, and don't foresee any issues (yet) with going HC. I plan on looking for a Baal map with corner teleports to eliminate to need to blind teleport through the WSK, and I will likely be sporting a spirit shield in the main switch so that I can teleport without weapon swapping, as those were the cause of most of my last runner's deaths.
Here is a short update because something that made me really happy just happened
So first of all I was farming a bit of LK after I had reached it at clvl 77. While I was rerolling maps I found a Lo rune... nice, but not really for a Necro
Soon after finding a map that looked ok-ish I decided that ti was too painful to run LK with this character, and after receiving very good advice from everyone here I decided to lvl a bit before continuing with the LK grind.
I quested a bit and finished Act4. Still at lvl 77 I got to Hell Eldritch and now I'm at lvl 82 still in the same place. The important thing is that I rolled map which has that Sparkly Chest right hext to his spawn in the Frigid Highlands. I thought, maybe I can get something good, so I open it every run just to see what happens. Although I'm only doing this on /p1, I'm really happy to announce that I'm 2/3 into Enigma already hahaha
This is HUGE!!!!!!
I want to go to LK already with this just to see if I get extra lucky. I also found a toy for a merc which could be helpful for croud control. I think I'll stay here for a bit, get Anya done while I find a 3os armor
Good progress everyone!
Cheers-
EDIT: I actually think I was doing /p2 when this happened, but the patterns are the same as /p1, right?
Revenge has run Baal a good bit more since Thursday. For some reason I'm still not totally bored to death. He got 2 more levels and now sits at 95.5.
Drops were surprisingly good, considering they're from some 15 hours of running a terrible target.
Quickly after the last update he got his fourth (!) Sharp GC with life. Then right after 94, and with no rune higher than Um having dropped so far from Baal waves, out of nowhere within 10 minutes we got two Ber runes. It got even funkier when Listed dropped an eth Tomby. Admittedly that one got the heart pumping, but was ultimately a bit disappointing with 2os (my second eth Tomby, with the first one rolling 1os....).
Baal dropped a few useful items as well, including SoE with a better DR roll (14%), and finally a pair of WT which Meph had refused to drop so far (only 36 MF though). After hitting 95 we spent some 30 minutes running Meph for a change of scenery (and still hoping for HLW), which got us his third Nagel (28 MF) and a nice drop for a future HC Sorc with Blizzard Ormus.
He kept cubing PBs and finally got another 5os one. Regrettably, I decided to take my chances and cube up my remaining Gul-Vex runes to roll another Grief. Roll was a terrible one (hidden deep in the screenshots below), and now I don't have enough for CtA for other chars. Welp, guess I should try my best to keep this guy alive now..
At least he now has Sur and 2x Ber stashed. So, can almost make a corpse recovery Enigma #HCjokes
Among craft amulets #71-90 there was finally a decent Barb one with +2 Barb, 10 FCR and 4 ML. At this point he doesn't see it though, 4 ML isn't quite high enough to sustain mana with short whirling against Baal.
These and other noteworthy drops:
Somehow didn't screenshot after ID, but here's the readout:
Code:
Tomb Reaver
Cryptic Axe
Two Hand Damage: 176 - 812
Durability: 33 of 33
Required Level: 84
Required Strength: 155
Required Dexterity: 93
Fingerprint: 0x6f4c5842
Item Level: 88
Version: Expansion 1.10+
+60% Increased Attack Speed
261% Enhanced Damage
+182% Damage to Undead
+310 to Attack Rating against Undead
All Resistances +39
10% Reanimate as: Returned
+10 Life after each Kill
57% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+4 to Light Radius Ethereal
2 Sockets (0 used)
Nice base for Chaos with a WW/DS build like I've used in the past:
(36 MF)
Third (disappointing) Grief roll:
Again we'll try to survive until 96 and then see whether to continue with Baal .
In any case, I hope adding him to the tables brings good luck rather than jinxing it.
Great progress, ffs! I didn't get any rune luck with my Bobo from Baal waves... I hope you happy with your two Bers (totally not an envious comment XD)
Great progress, ffs! I didn't get any rune luck with my Bobo from Baal waves... I hope you happy with your two Bers (totally not an envious comment XD)
Well, if it's any consolation he doesn't have any use for Bers, would much rather see Lo or slightly below but yeah I'll take them, it's a nice head start for future HC chars.
Been running some attack speed calcs for that eth Tomby btw.. I may do the questionable thing and HC -> SC transfer it for use in my Zod sept. It does hit a few good breakpoints for several chars, even with only one RJoF. Still hoping for a 3os one some day, though.
Been running some attack speed calcs for that eth Tomby btw.. I may do the questionable thing and HC -> SC transfer it for use in my Zod sept. It does hit a few good breakpoints for several chars, even with only one RJoF. Still hoping for a 3os one some day, though.
@Kinkara GG! What a clutch jah! Btw Lo is great. Fort is an enormous improvement for necros merc in particular. Also you can always shop a 3os breast plate from fara in normal if you're desperate for that enigma base .
You're right, @Luhkoh I wasn't really thinking about the merc But I also need basically every base for everything haha. I found a 3os BP in my stash and I have a 5os War Scepter for Beast in the future... if I decide to go Summoner, but I don't know. I could use that same base for CtA and forget the summons altogether and farm lvl 98 in The Pits. I have a non-eth 4os Thresher for Insight, but not even a 4os Armor of any kind for a Fortitude
I also don't have a base for HOTO! Where are all the white items!
@Kinkara I'll echo what @Luhkoh said, Fortitude is really key item for Necro. Naked Necro with Enigma with Andy/Fortitude/Infinity or Insight Merc is already a pretty strong char.
As for bases: As mentioned in my LK posts earlier, I always hit a lot of poppables in LK. Not only is it worth hitting them for runes up to Lo (and even Ber), but they also drop lots of random items including runeword bases. Except for elite eth polearm and PBs (which don't drop much from poppables in general), my Barb got everything from them including cube bugged merc armor, numerous bases for Spirits/Hotos/CtAs/Beast etc.
@Kinkara in addition to what ffs said, I just wouldnt worry about bases. Just get hoto and cta rolling (cube white crystal swords from nm cows and white flails from normal cows if you're desperate for those bases), and start doing pit runs. The bases will trickle in after that. I would save that Lo for an ebug base for the merc for sure. Shouldn't be too terribly long a wait in pits for that. Fwiw, I would want to stay in pits till 97 or 98, but take that with a grain of salt, since I'll not be backing up that statement with gameplay ^^.
Anger finally hit 97 yesterday night. The rest of the level went pretty uneventful.
Another nice drop was a 4sox eth thresher. My first one ever. After looking for it for so long with no success on my modded game I find it now where its of no use to me.... ^^
Other drops include alma negra number 2, suicide branch number 2, a nice 7mf 8fr sc, gulli and a random ormus.
Overall this level felt like it took forever but only cuz i took a break for one month. After the break I feel like I pushed pretty hard and completed it quickly.
I had 2 deaths from 96 to 97 and found my last piece of equiment which was highlords wrath. Which is just awesome. I also got my first highrune from running baal which was a VEX. So id say it was a pretty good level with some nice stuff happening.
I was pretty sure that I will need a break from the barb after getting to 97 and focus more on the untwinked pala but my motivation is still strong and I will continue pushing exp on Anger.
After doing some baalruns I realized that this level will be the toughest challenge yet. Exp comes really slowly and I hope I can stay motivated and grind at this tempo. I really want to be done with baalruns and start running nila.
----
My pala is still 2 surs away from enigma. He is having some back luck at LK atm but I hope he can finish it soon and join the table.
Good job @Pax1990! A bit jealous of that HLW drop..
Revenge is still making progress, just not much to report in terms of drops, hence the lack of updates recently.
We did hit 96 and are currently 30% towards 97.
By now drops have become as dreadful as one would expect from running Baal. There were two useful items for him with Gore Rider and a better pair of Gravepalm for second wave (actually with perfect 200% undead ED). Other drops included his second 3os HHG, PComb life skiller, second GFace (which briefly saw use on Merc but we're now back to Andy) and 1-2 minor charm upgrades with sligthly better life/res ones. No runes to speak of, but after the previous 2x Ber I can't really complain I guess... Lastly we crafted some more rings and amulets, with a couple of nice results but nothing for him to actually use at this point.
After the Gore Rider drop we briefly used those, but then switched back to Goblin Toe. They perform better vs. Baal and only very slightly worse against some of the waves, according to my spreadsheet at least. Plus in the end I really prefer not having FRW from Boots when using Raven/CNBF. Whirling was just a little more imprecise with Gores and CNBF.
Screenshots:
More interestingly perhaps, I've been doing some XP gain testing in anticipation of the grind 97 onwards. Beause let's be real, I will eventually try to 99 this guy if I do manage to keep him alive. Been discussing some of the below approaches and shrine odds with @Luhkoh, which helped in compiling this overview with rough estimates:
It all depends on exact run times in the end, and the above are what I'd currently consider rather optimistic ones for both Baal and Diablo. My actual times are more like 220s for Baal and 80s for Diablo from timing a few runs. Pretty sure the latter can be reduced considerably though, as I have barely any practice with Barb Diablo runs. Haven't done any Nihl testing yet, so the 25s are just a guess really, and assuming significant S&E lag.
The surprising news here is I'm pretty sure P1/P7 Diablo is the highest XP gain for Barbs for 97-98. I used typical WW build. Basically similar to Baal build/setup, with some modifications, only using Berserk if a seal boss rolls physically immune. Factors such as CS layout don't even matter for this strategy, so one can focus on rolling a great shrine map, maybe even with more than 6 shrines even. @PhineasB@Kinkara@ResTTe did any of you try these runs with WW build on your Barbs?
That being said, for HC I think I might stick to Baal despite worse XP, just because it's safer not having to hang with De Seis.
Regarding P8/P7 Diablo, I did a few runs but aborted most of them, think it's just a bit too rough for this guy unfortunately.
For 98-99, it might also be worth going P1/P7 Diablo as it should easily deliver >3m XP/h, not much worse than Nihl. I suspect XP/h at Nihl will still be worth it for a little more XP (I'd look for 2 shrines en route). At least when comparing both targets being pushed equally hard. In HC I think I'd run Nihl without Merc, which makes runs safer but a little slower again. Overall it might actually be safer than CS and still better though.
Anyway, some interesting things to explore with Barb. But for now, let's focus on not dying and worry about stuff like that later, it may all be in vain after all.
@ffs I've tried running CS in different ways, but it wasn't that good. Maybe it is better exp than baal, but you also have lister runs which should be better than full baalrun (right?) and CS just felt dangerous. I wasn't able to do CS runs fast enough for it to be worth it iirc, but maybe I calculated something wrong. Could also be the fact that I tried it on lower lvls... In the end, Baal was just easier, simpler and more relaxing and, what was the most important for my barb, I had some real chance of getting TC 87 items when lvling. Actually got many of those and it's pretty clear that i wouldn't even get half as many in CS.
I really wanted to run CS at some point, cause it seemed like an enjoyable thing to do with a melee char, but it wasn't meant to happen before getting 99. I did like 4k P1 seals P1/P3 Diablo runs with a berserk barb to get Stormlash, but that's a different story xD My average runtime was 1:28, but i was using many MF items, together with MF charms and was picking up a lot of shit to identified, so you can't really take this number as an estimation for lvling.
When it comes to runtimes. I would say everything below 4 minutes Baalruns is good, everything below 3:45 is very good and everything below 3:30 is top tier. Those are like mixed "picking up items/focusing on getting exp" runtimes. It is way easier to achieve those numbers if you don't pick up most of the stuff that drops, but i don't think it's worth it, cause 90-98 is like 130 hours, so the chance of getting something cool is quite high. In CS you can easly go below 1:30, everything below 1:20 is already good and everything below 1:10 is very good. If anybody can achieve sub 1 minute CS runs or even get close to that on an UT barb, let me know ^^ I already talked about Nihla runtimes in my previous post here, so i won't repeat myself. I have no idea how much merc affects runtimes, but i must say, Delirium is OP and the difference in safety and simplicity is astounding. Maybe you can run without merc with some weird gear like Dream helmet or something like that and make it possible. I think it would be better than gface.
I didn't include Lister runs in the spreadsheet, but at 97 it's definitely better to include Baal including for XP (I included him on lower levels as well, but just for drops). At 97, the XP from Baal is about ~25% of the whole run, and only takes some 10-15% of the run or so depending on CB amount.
As for drops, both CS and Baal suck for this and the difference isn't too big really, so I just don't really treat it as a meaningful factor. Not really looking to maximize TC87 drops from such crappy targets.
I'd be more optimistic about run times though. Even without HLW I get like 3m45s Baal runs (like in this random run when being overly cautious with dolls in throne room and some wave minions wandering off out of range). With HLW I considered 3m30s the normal benchmark in the past, with the occasional very clean run around the 3min mark. Gripphon's HoR Baal entry is 2m50s (albeit with hax gear), just for reference. You don't really lose time by picking up stuff from Baal runs due to the wave mechanism, so IMO picking behaviour doesn't have much of an impact on Baal times?
Indeed the safety of Baal runs makes it very appealing even for 97-98, but in terms of XP efficiency it's not really competitive, or so it seems to me. For CS, I consistently got around 80s in test runs. Pretty sure it can be brought closer to 70s (nope, I don't see it happening under 1 minute ). But even like 75s Diablo runs give much better XP/h than 3m30s Baal runs for 97-98... It saves ~7 hours (!) of running in this case assuming a good shrine map. If it wasn't for the HC/safety aspect, I'd for sure go for that.
The idea of running Nihl without Merc is then you don't actually need crowd control like Dreams and the like. Remember those Viper clouds insta-RIP you because of the Merc being next to you – the clouds keep rapidly applying damage alternating between you and the Merc just because of his presence. If you go without Merc and use shift-click attack (so that you don't move within the clouds), they aren't that scary anymore. The downside is you lose some damage from Merc, but I'd suspect it's worth the extra safety and probably still better XP than CS for 98-99.
Also re Nihl, did you try including Berserk as well? Because I'm not quite sure pure Conc is the way to go. Specifically I think maybe Berserk/Conc hybrid could be an idea to deal with Stone Skin Nihl, which is the main obstacle for Barb at Nihl. Plus Battle Cry should help, in particular without Merc.