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How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions i

KremBanan

KremBanan

PurePremium
Oct 3, 2005
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How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

Rune Bow
+2 Ama Skills
193ed
9 Max Dam
129 AR
8 Dex

This is an end-game bow right?

With Twitchthroe, Goldwrap and Bloodfist(or rare 10ias gloves), I will reach the 37ias breakpoint(10frames) for Multishot/Guided.


Also, I have problems deciding on some other gear.

Dual-Res/mf Boots vs Goblin Toe(for the CB)

Angelic amu vs +skills/res/mf amu
Angelic ring vs res/stat/leech ring


Will my AR hurt badly with no Angelic setup? Or will 20pts in Penetrate be enough?


This is for PvM only.
 
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Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

I guess that rather depends on which attack you will use.
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

I wouldn't go for angelic since amas get loads of AR from dex and penetrate. Try to get manaleech/dex/res rings. Goblin toes are kinda must for hell. I guess you could do ok without up to flayer jungle but not a4 I think.

That bow would have been kinda nice for pvp pre 1.10 :) I guess it still is. And pre 1.10 it would have been very good for pvm too.

But after 1.10 bowazons are struggling. GL to you tough.
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

Thats not ideal pvp rune because it lacks 20 ias it needs to get 1 frame faster than a gothic bow. Now its just a gothic bow with nice min kicky +2 but low max. So not a pvp bow (if one does not lame with ias hacks) and not a pvm bow imo. For pvm strafe ballista or gothic is better imo.

Nice stats though. Anything over 190 ed is very cool to look at and +2 makes it even more appealing. Since all bowzons are novelty chars you can make it to hell flyers, but thats about it with this dmg bow.
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

ah ye it misses that .. then its not more special than gothic yeah.
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

So, its Goblin Toe > all ?

And Gothic/Ballista are the only bows that an bowa can use in hell a3-a4?
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

If you plan to use strafe then there is no point using rune bow i guess. IIRC gothic, ballista and rune bow has the same maximum speed with strafe in classic (not enough ias items). You would have to go double bow for next step which would also gimp your damage a lot.
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

Ok.

So a 99ed Gothic bow is better than my 193ed Rune Bow?


And some more questions, this amulet:
2ama
11str
37mana
17prism
18mf
Is this good enough for a PvM Bowa? Or should I go with Etlich? Or any other amulet?


And last, what does a "perfect Bowa" look like? (I know there isnt a perfect, but how would one of the best bowas in ckassic look like?)
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

i am no where near as knowledgible as the others on here, but i'd say this be the perfect phys damage bow/xbow:

*note that a rare can only have 6 mods. 3 prefix and 3 suffix mods.

gothic bow or balista xbow: 200% enhanced damage, +20 max damage, +2 amazon skills, 20% IAS, 250% ? AR, elem damage (especially cold), +20 min damage, resists, LL, ML, +dex, -30% req, etc....
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the reason why phys damage dealing bow/xbow using amazons (bow zons) have such a hard time (in classic) is:

1. low damage weapons. the best two: gothic bow and balista xbow only do ~150-200 damage when PERFECT (200% or near 200% enhanced damage, +20 max damage)

2. strafe and MS get a 3/4 penalty which i think means -25% enchanced damage. so with strafe at slvl 20 getting ~100% enchanced damage -25% enchanced damage = only 75% enchanced damage. and i'm not sure what % enchanced damage MS gets to at slvl 20 of top of my head but u already got the idea from strafe, -25% to whatever % MS gets.

3. the new physical resistance that somewhat recent patch (maybe 1.10) added to the game. nearly every monster now in hell has some natural phys resistance. there is nothing that can be done about this by a zon alone. only sanctuary, amp, and decrep can effect the physical resistance of monsters.

4. the new difficulty's physical resistance that somewhat recent patch (maybe 1.10) added to the game. i think its 25% phys res in nm and 50% phys res in hell.

3. + 4. +stone skin monster mod effect:

can put many monsters at 100% or over for phys immunity. but, just because a monster isn't phys immune doesn't mean that it is easy to kill with phys damage. 75% phys res can make monsters near impossible to kill with phys damage, especially the weak bow zon. but the game (in-game) only tells u when a monster is immune, not whether it has high or low resistance.

5. monster heal

6. stronger monsters (more life, def rat, etc..)

7A. to make up for the low damage weapons and low enhanced damage skills u pretty much HAVE to RAISE DEX to very high lvls. this makes the zon very fragile.

7B. also, u need certain gear to raise your damage power like OW (boneflesh), CB (rattlecage, goblin toe), and IAS (twitch, sig/death/iratha gloves, goldwrap belt, 10% IAS bloodfist glove or rare gloves). this makes u even more fragile with little gear left for resists or whatever.
 
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Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

ah, builds, my bad for messing up,

depends on what u want with "perfect" :

(elem bow zons don't have a problem since u using elem damage which gets high damage from skills, doesn't need gear to improve damage like phys damage does. so i'm NOT discussing elem damage bow zons below, ONLY phys damage bow zons)

(the same thing applies with magical damage, magic arrow skill bow zons. so i'm NOT discussing magical damage bow zons below, ONLY phys damage bow zons))

two types really for *PHYS* damage dealing bow zons:

1. offensive: max damage but super fragile (dies easy)

2. defensive: doesn't die, but also has a very hard time killing, or even, can't kill !

u can of course do what u want but here's my builds:

1. offensive:

*total/final damage=damage x speed. this is the same as the actual science-physics-engineering equation of power=mass x acceleration. power would be your TOTAL/FINAL damage in game. mass would be your damage (from weapon, dex, skills, gear mods like CB, OW, poison, +skills). acceleration would be your attack speed (from weapon base speed and the gear mod IAS).

in other words:

*more damage, more total/final damage

*more speed, more total/final damage

*more speed AND more damage, EVEN MORE total/final damage

stats: enough str/dex for gear. rest into dex. optional 100-150 into vit for survivibility, but reduces your damage.

skills: 20 into strafe OR MS (multiple shot) OR GA (guided arrow), 20 critcal strike, 20 penetrate, 20 pierce (for strafe at least, not sure if pierce is useful for MS, and pierce is useLESS for guided since it doesn't work anymore with guided), 20 into inner sight.

gear: godly rare gothic or balista. twitch OR boneflesh OR rattle cage OR silks. biggins bonnet (if using death belt + death gloves) OR tarn (if using death belt + death gloves) OR sig hat (if using goldwrap belt + sig gloves). death gloves + death belt OR goldwrap belt + sig hat +sig gloves. goblin toe or sig boots (this would free up hat for biggins bonnet instead of sig hat), godly rare amulet. godly rare rings OR sojs.

2. defense:

stats: enough str/dex for gear. "enough dex for needed damage". rest into vit. u wanna pump vit as much as u can (try not to raise dex too much for damage, if u can help it) but still be able to kill, if possible...

skills: 20 into strafe OR MS (multiple shot) OR GA (guided arrow), stop at "diminishing returns" for critcal strike, optional 20 penetrate, optional 20 pierce, or stop at "diminishing returns" for pierce (for strafe at least, not sure if pierce is useful for MS, and pierce is useLESS for guided since it doesn't work anymore with guided), optional 20 valk or stop at whatever slvl the valk can stay alive in 8 player hell difficulty, optional 20 decoy, stop at "diminishing returns" for the 1-3 "dodge" skills.

gear: godly rares mostly and maybe some uniques as well. OR full iratha + goldskin (or darkglow or whatever armor).
 
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Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

What on earth would Biggins Bonnet be on a godly bowa, as you put it? Same goes for SoJ. There is nothing a SoJ can offer a good bowa(except Frost Maidens).

I didnt say godly bowa, but 'perfect' as in meaning 'what would one of the best bowas in classic look like?'. And the best bowazons are physical damage zons with high killspeed.
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

*biggins give 30% more damage. not too useful but they need all the damage they can get. of course u have to weigh what gear to use with what u need or prefer. biggins is merely *ONE* option of the few i listed for hats that are useful (in my opinion).

*any +skill gear (sojs, tarn, silks, +2 amazon bow, +2 amazon amulet) is good where/when possible (+skills increase damage and everything else)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*as to specifically about the soj that u wanted:

each soj ring gives (according to this site's wiki) +1 to all skills, +1-12 lit damage, +20 mana, +25% mana. i thought soj had mana regen. i don't currently have soj so i can only go by my memory which isn't very reliable or use the wiki info.

the usefulness of a soj for a phys damage bow zon:

+skills is good for a bow zon where u can fit/use them. it gives your strafe/MS/GA more % enhanced damage. gives more bonuses to all otehr skills...higher valk, critical strike, penetrate, 3 "dodge" skills, pierce, decoy, inner sight, and slow missles)

more mana is good too. and if soj does have mana regen thats good too. strafe and MS (i haven't ever tried guided arrow yet, so i can't say much about it) need a way to keep firing since they have pretty high mana cost. ML, high mana pool, mana regen all help with this.

the question is: soj rings vs rare rings

+skills and mana for sojs vs AR, resists, ML, LL, +max/min, and other mods for rare rings

i DO feel a godly rare ring wins over soj always.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hmm, as for type... fire damage bow zon isn't too useful do to high fire resistance or immunity in late game. cold is much better (as we all know from bliz/orb cold using sorcs). phys damage bow zon is very hard to make viable (able to kill and survive) without very good gear (godly weapon at least).

i'd have to say that the best (IN MY JUDGEMENT/OPINION ONLY) is a magic arrow bow zon. since magical damage on a bow zon (magic arrow skill user) can do really good damage, no damage penalty, and most monsters aren't resistant or immune to magical damage.

feel free to disagree with anything and change as u see fit. this is merely MY OPINION/SUGGESTIONS of whats a good build; skills, stats, and gear.

i am NOT the most knowledgible here. others know much better or more than me.

but i like to help and responded to your request post, even if i'm not the most experienced or knowledgible. if others who know better than me would help u that be much better for u. until than u have my limited opinion/suggestions to apply or ignore.

its your character. do whatever u want.
 
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Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

Oh, sorry. I thought it said 30%enhanced defense and not damage. Its been a long time since Ive taken a look at those normal uniques :)

I appriciate all the suggestions and opinions I can get. I like to look up all info I can get and I like to plan the entire char(stats, skills, gear) before I start or get higher level.

About the SoJ. +skills doesnt really do much for a physical damage char like a bowa, atleast not in LoD. Maybe its different in CL, but I would think a str/dex/ar ring would be better, and maybe leech on it also.

About MA, how good is this vs Physical Immunes in classic? Ok, nice or very good?
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

ya we classic players have to be more aware of this low level unique gear and sets, while always looking out for godly rares which is "king" in classic for gear.

about biggins don't worry,

i myself hadn't realized its 30% enhanced DAMAGE either. and tancred hat gives 10% enhanced damage, btw (by the way) too. still its not that useful, u'll probably need resists and would rather use a godly rare hat or duskdeep hat for resists or even a tarn instead for +1 skill or u could do the defensive hats like face of horror=flee mod or howltusk=flee mod + knockback or u could do the sig hat for its AR set bonus or etc..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
there's quite a few of these "weird" items that have mods u never notice on them. biggins and tancred HAT having enhanced DAMAGE. an unique sword (keep forgetting its name. its the type that has a rectangle shaped blade) gives +20 to def rat.

deadly strike weapons (4 uniques. 2 pole arms. 1 bow. 1 xbow) (especially grim reaper unique pole arm at 100% deadly strike!!) (there's also some sets that have it too like clegaw i think) which in two other treads, i jsut found out applies the double damage to weapon (melee or ranged) damage AT THE END OF DAMAGE CALCULATIONS !!! meaning it will double the sum of phys + elem + magical damage!!! think high elem or magical damage being doubled...... wow !!

grim reaper weapon doing DOUBLE (2x) holy freeze, holy fire, holy shock, vengence, berserk, sanctuary damage every single attack (100% deadly strike with grim reaper unique pole arm)! wow!
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soj (and other +skill gear) comment:

a godly rare ring is definately better than a soj

ya soj isn't too useful epsecially when u probably need all the other mods a rare ring can give. the +skills where u can add them though DO help (how much i really don't know though). but with strafe (i don't know about MS or GA) at slvl 20 it only gets like 100-110% enhanced damage but looses -25% (strafe and MS get 3/4 penalty which i presume means -25% enhanced damage) so thats like ~75% enhanced damage only (~100% - 25% = ~75%). this is why u need to raise dex for more enhanced damage %, and more +skills to raise the "strafe" (or MS or GA probably too) 's low enhanced damage already. having higher slvl "strafe" is beter than less. but +skills are much less important than everything else u need. where u can, its better to have +skills than not (duh), but not at the expense of much more needed things.

about MA:

MA (magic arrow amazon skill) (or magical damage to be more accurate, which MA uses) is VERY powerful and effective on classic! there's not too many magic immunes, and magical damage harms everything else usually really well, even magic resistant enemies. your magical damage usually exceeds a monsters magical resistance and u still kill them fast (usually). MA zon does require a high damage weapon, of course. but in my opinion its the most effective (cookie-cutter) skill of all the amazon bow skills. its like the "hammerdin-blessed hammers" of the amazons.
 
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Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

Ok.

So a 99ed Gothic bow is better than my 193ed Rune Bow?
Click to expand...

Duh no.. Would be nice if you listed the actual damage of the rune bow not just the %.. a lot easier to compare to other bow types.. since I can't remember the base damage of these and cba to calculate even if I did.

But 193ed rune must be close to 90-100 damage.. so a gothic with about 100-120% ed would be over 100 damage, should be better for strafe. Can't remember the strafe breakpoints right now but IIRC rune and gothic didn't have much difference, anyways rune can't break the last point possible in classic that only double bow and razor can.
 
Re: How good is this bow for Classic? + Some other questions

KremBanan said:
Ok.

So a 99ed Gothic bow is better than my 193ed Rune Bow?


And some more questions, this amulet:
2ama
11str
37mana
17prism
18mf
Is this good enough for a PvM Bowa? Or should I go with Etlich? Or any other amulet?


And last, what does a "perfect Bowa" look like? (I know there isnt a perfect, but how would one of the best bowas in ckassic look like?)
Click to expand...

This is the bow i used last ladder on my pvp bower. Its not perfect as you can see but avg is great on it.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5234/screenshot009an6.jpg



 
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