Tournament Scoring Discussion

[purplelocust]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

Greebo's expected-value suggestion seems the most reasonable to me. As far as complexity, I'm not so worried about that as pretty much once people settle on the table values, it's just looking them up.

For actual comparison of various proposals, it might be good to see how the scores would have been distributed for recent and older MFOs under various proposed revised systems, deleting names which would be distracting.

I'm strongly against including TC3s, so I'm glad to see there hasn't been much suggestion on that front. Indeed TC3s are rare from typical MF targets in Hell, but there are much more efficient ways of getting them, so just going by rarity is a bad idea in that case. I remember computing some years ago when a similar discussion took place that Baal was ten times more likely to drop Tyrael's than to drop a minor mana potion. So a minor mana potion from Baal is indeed rare, but there are more effective ways of getting a minor mana potion (for example, shopping!)

 

[Greebo]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

@bassano: I think you might want to reread what jjscud wrote. From what you say, you're not actually agreeing with him.

The actual scoring system we have now is not "good". It has worked for years because it's good enough, but it does have one major flaw: very artificial score hike for 4 items (Tyraels, Stormlash, Schaefer's and Azurewrath). That's something that should be dealt with no matter what system jjscud can come up with.

Now, people may like this artificial hike for these 4 items, because they are tough to find / cool / whatever. But that doesn't change the fact that they do get double bonus points, where you yourself argue that's a bad thing in the Spired Helms/Thunder Mauls case, and has since been removed.

I'm of a very very strong opinion that this part has to go, one way or another.

This is of course a more general discussion, with no impact on your current tourney.

@purplelocust: Yeah, jjscud mentioned he wanted to rerun any past MFO's using the "new" system, whatever that might come out to be.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

a minor mana potion from Baal is indeed rare, but there are more effective ways of getting a minor mana potion (for example, shopping!)

Goddammit, now you tell me?!?

 

[jjscud]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

So, jjscud, could you please give a real life example on how you would score:
- Windforce and Steelrend
- Astreon's
- Gris' Honor and Gris' Valor
- Earthshifter
- Tyrael's & Templar's

I think the entire issue can be pretty much covered by discussing these 8 items. I also think with the table I've just made it shouldn't be very difficult, unless I misunderstood you.

I can give it a shot, but not until later tonight.

But first, Even without doing all the math, I can see where this is leading and I'm going to question it. For whatever reason, TC 78 is ridiculously rare. TC 87 weapons get a solid bump because there are so many of them but that doesn't make it more difficult to get one. Even without doing all the math, its clear that tc78s will get more points. Additionally that tc is not as populated with uniques as tc 87 so its even harder to get a tc78 unique.

So:

Pro: tc78s are rarer from these targets. They should get more points.

Con: Scoring tc78s over tc87s is going to be unpopular. Even understanding the math, I still am not thrilled about it.

Edit.

To put solid numbers to it, dividing by 10 to keep the numbers similar to what we have now. tc78weap would start with 11.6 points and tc87weap would start with 9.8 points. Now multiplying by the inverse of the unique density (what a mouthful), tc78weap would get 11.6 * (8/5) = 18.6 and tc87weap would get 9.8 * (15/13) = 11.3 points. (just a note, colossus girdle is an armor). Also tc69weap would get 19.6 points, ouch.

 

[bassano]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

@bassano: I think you might want to reread what jjscud wrote. From what you say, you're not actually agreeing with him.

The actual scoring system we have now is not "good". It has worked for years because it's good enough, but it does have one major flaw: very artificial score hike for 4 items (Tyraels, Stormlash, Schaefer's and Azurewrath). That's something that should be dealt with no matter what system jjscud can come up with.

OK, I missed some posts , but with this table you are wrong with last line, if I understood it correctly
I did not understood another posts where you are saying that TC78 weapons are even rarer then TC87 ones but let´s skip this and only use your table as my argument
I did not get why that score should be half. On thunder mauls OK, ratio of drops is 1vs1 but why put lash points to half a place of 5/6*34 or 9/10*96.4 which is more realistic and logical for me
if you will do 17 for lash, how many points will get DW or asteron? If 27.9 as usual, it is wrong beacuse statistic of MF competitions say something else
e.g. if you will have 48 points for Tyrael and 28 for DW do you want to say that you have only twice more DW drops then Tyrael drops? You see how unreal this is
And how many Tyraels have been found in MFO? e.g. 6 and how many DW? e.g. 25, this looks more for actual scoring system then for yours
I think that you put more effort to write some arguments then to use simple statistic
maybe that scoring system you are proclaiming will put smaller luck into competition beacuse Tyrael will not be allmighty but true will be somewhere else


All I wanted to say: let´s do a statistic, we did enough runs to be correct with that, even if you will count only MFO numbers it is just a huge help

and btw. if this table are numbers from your runs, it is really low number to do a statistic, so from this you can not say anything about probability of drops, I found really lot of Scourges during last MFO and really few of them during some another MFO so it is a lot about moment


edit:

You are contradicting yourself.

If you want to use the 6 Tyrael's vs. 25 DW's argument, you can use it just as well towards The Cranium Basher vs. other things. But hold on, you don't want to do that. So you do want to look at statistics (i.e. straight out probability) for items you like (Tyrael's, Lash) but not for items you don't like (The Cranium Basher, Veil of Steel), there you want to half the score.

That's inconsistent.

There is much difference between Tyrael and Thunder Mauls. to be correct it is 10 times different beacuse you simply can not divide number by 2 beacuse thre is ratio 1/10 and not 1/2
Beacuse My statistics ofc count sum of all Thunder Mauls I have found and that number said it is a same like number of BA´s. So use previous argument to this.

The system you want to use treats drops inconsistently. I think that should be changed in general, for things like MFO. People want to use system by jjscud because he put a lot of work into it and it is based on sound principles. jjscud agrees with me that the current system is actually inconsistent.

Maybe is inconsistent but system you are saying is much worse then current one, believe me that lot of players will protest even more then you againist this one
And this is not about tournament I am running, scoring system there is just done but this is about all MF tournaments
And I do not want to use it beacuse it was hard to made but beacuse I like it

And a big, fat NO, NO, NO to your whole idea about general use of statistics.

Simple example: if you throw a coin 1,000 times and get 507 times "heads" it doesn't mean that the coin is ubalanced. As a matter of fact, the probability of getting exactly 500 heads vs. 500 tails is very very small.

What you're proposing with using actual results is essentially the same as testing how good the coin is by tossing it 1,000 times.

We don't need statistics from the results of MFO's. We have actual original probabilities.

I do not want to use statistic for do different scoring system, I want to use it as prove you are wrong, nothing more

And for your simple example, statistic have more variabilities then simple number: e.g. drop distribution and standard deviation so 507 Thunder Mauls vs 502 BA´s or 495 Hydra Bows will say you a lot


most important question I have for you: Give me a prove that stormlash should be for 17 a place of 34, one prove, simple number or simple argument, without everything it is write here before and i will say you OK

edit2: yeah, I found argument so your system is right in this point of view and it have really something usefull and something to think about, so sorry that I used too strong arguments but still strong argument is tradition and manners which worked lot of time

And the same my opinion is to keep it beacuse stormlash or shaefers is something which you can save you when someone will find class specific TC87 weapon which is worth 27.8 points beacuse when you did same number of runs and he was enough lucky that he found one of them you can be enough lucky to find right scourge or mallet
Beacuse MFO is more about moment of the week then about long time MFing and this moment is based on this system (ofc. thunder mauls and mighty scepters are exception confirming rule )

[highlight]Items with a single base but uneven odds[/highlight]

Second, While this appears to be different from the items with equal probabilities above, over the long term its not, the expected score from getting 9 sacred armors is within a few points of the expected score of getting 9 thundermauls with double-point scoring.
Third, the resulting score for Tyrael's Might is so high that it basically can't be beaten, changing the "top 5" into a "top 1" in all but one instance.

 

[Greebo]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

I don't like where this is going either, to be honest. I just thought it would be a neat idea to know that we don't like where it's going, if you know what I mean. Hence, I made the tables. It wasn't my idea in the first place, I just went with it, cause I was curious what the results would be.

My proposal is to keep what we have, adjust scores for the 4 pairs of items that I mentioned many times. Optional: adding jewelery in a way that gives Metalgrid 3.2, if people want that. That's it.

I just think it's nice to know where the other kind of scoring leads to, based on TC as you suggested.

--Greebo

 

[Greebo]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

I think that you put more effort to write some arguments then to use simple statistic

You are contradicting yourself.

If you want to use the 6 Tyrael's vs. 25 DW's argument, you can use it just as well towards The Cranium Basher vs. other things. But hold on, you don't want to do that. So you do want to look at statistics (i.e. straight out probability) for items you like (Tyrael's, Lash) but not for items you don't like (The Cranium Basher, Veil of Steel), there you want to half the score.

That's inconsistent.

There's nothing wrong about that inconsistency, per se. You're making a tournament now. You should feel free to use any scoring system you want. You can assign points based on how many times letter "a" appears in the name of the item and that's fine, too. People will take part as they see fit.

The system you want to use treats drops inconsistently. I think that should be changed in general, for things like MFO. People want to use system by jjscud because he put a lot of work into it and it is based on sound principles. jjscud agrees with me that the current system is actually inconsistent.

---

EDIT: The numbers in my table are obviously not a statistic. How did I find 1.5 of something? Really? They are rarities within Atomic TC.

---

And a big, fat NO, NO, NO to your whole idea about general use of statistics.

Simple example: if you throw a coin 1,000 times and get 507 times "heads" it doesn't mean that the coin is ubalanced. As a matter of fact, the probability of getting exactly 500 heads vs. 500 tails is very very small.

What you're proposing with using actual results is essentially the same as testing how good the coin is by tossing it 1,000 times.

We don't need statistics from the results of MFO's. We have actual original probabilities.

 

[jjscud]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

Ok, so I pulled down Greebo's spreadsheet and quickly put in the formula for unqiues which mostly just takes into account chances of hitting a unique given that you've selected a certain tc. I haven't adjusted anything for rarity within a TC so this isn't meant to be final. I've also included sets, I arbitrarily took 1/3 the odds of a unique to begin with (I think Greebo figured .35 rather than .33 but its close enough to see what's happening).

So, does this look like anything worth continuing with?

ATOMIC TC	Unique Score	Set Score
weap69		19.8		13.2
weap72		 8.5	
weap75		 6.9		16.0
weap78		18.6		30.9
weap81		12.5	
weap84		13.9		23.1
weap87		11.3		12.3

armo69		26.4	
armo72		14.8	
armo75		24.2		12.1
armo78		38.8		19.4
armo81		18.8		15.7
armo84		24.6		 8.2
armo87		31.0		15.5

 

[Greebo]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

To me it seems like something out of the blue and with a huge "Huh?" factor... But unless I've made _major_ mistakes (the Colossuss Gridle thing will change this a bit) that's what it leads to.

In my opinion it's not representative of... well... anything?

Continue at your own risk.

 

[jjscud]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

Ok, I had to check one more thing before moving on. The chance to drop unique is affected by the base item's qlvl so tc78 gets a very slight boost, but after running through the numbers its only about .05% difference so it won't really affect the rough numbers we have.

In my opinion it's not representative of... well... anything?

Of course it is.

The actual scoring system we have now is not "good".

This is the closest we've come to removing ALL of the inconsistencies, not just selected inconsistencies, which is itsself inconsistent.

Like it or not, the tc78 tcs are rarer than the tc87 tcs from alvl 85 monsters.


So, tossing math aside for a moment, I think we can apply one of two famous quotes here.

1. "You can't handle the truth"

We could say oh crap, we've shown the existing system is flawed and nobody will want a non-flawed system, we're screwed.

OR

2. "the truth will set you free"

This is how I feel about it. Nobody will like a perfectly consistent system, so we're free to throw statistics and probabilities out the window and focus on making changes that make the competitions more interesting.

Personally, I don't think making minor mostly meaningless tweaks is worthwhile, the scoring tradition is more valuable to me than narrow-minded changes.*

I think the only useful interesting change would be to do as Nightfish suggested:

Note that I never aimed at being perfectly accurate. My goal was to get items in order according to rarity and weigh them with rare items being worth slightly more than less rare items.

Simply put the items in some order and score them. This would allow us to play around a lot more and compare things like a Tyrael's Might and no other finds vs. 4 standard tc87 uniques and a dweb, who should win?

* Of course, as I've said before, I don't have any immediate plans to host anything, so my personal opinion doesn't mean much.

 

[Greebo]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

Of course it is.

I meant that it is not representative of our biased opinions that we hold in out heads about this subject. The math itself is sound enough.

Personally, I don't think making minor mostly meaningless tweaks is worthwhile, the scoring tradition is more valuable to me than narrow-minded changes.

I do not think that my suggestions were narrow-minded. I will also take this statement from you with a grain of salt. Narrow-mindedness is a quality that I very much strive not to have. I do not particularly see how my suggestions were such, but that's perhaps not very pertinent to this discussion.

I also don't think the changes I suggested would be meaningless.

I was trying to convince you to make those minor changes because
- I truly believe that it's a good idea.
- Your opinion matters much more to the participants of the MFO than mine.

I think at this point I've done a decent enough job of convincing a few people to my point about Tyrael's, Stormlash, Azurewrath and Schaefer's. It seems that I didn't convince you. That's OK and I think I'll stop trying.

I feel like I invested myself way too much into this entire discussion anyway, especially considering I'm just a spectator most of the time... Perhaps I convinced Fabian enough, so that he considers adjustment to these 4 pairs of items next time he holds a tournament. Then again, perhaps not.

Anyway, it was fun and interesting discussion for the most part. I also learned a lot about drop mechanics which was pretty freakin awesome. Yes I'm a geek. Now, I'm out. I'll be watching what you come up with from a sideline with curiosity and interest.

--Greebo

 

[Greebo]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

There is much difference between Tyrael and Thunder Mauls. to be correct it is 10 times different beacuse you simply can not divide number by 2 beacuse thre is ratio 1/10 and not 1/2
Beacuse

(...)

most important question I have for you: Give me a prove that stormlash should be for 17 a place of 34, one prove, simple number or simple argument, without everything it is write here before and i will say you OK

First of all, I've just noticed your edit at all, so I will take a second to reply to it, since there were questions directed towards me specifically.

[highlight]Issue 1[/highlight]: "beacuse you simply can not divide number by 2 beacuse thre is ratio 1/10 and not 1/2"

The division by 2 doesn't come from the ratio. It comes from the fact that there are 2 unique Sacred Armors. With amulets, I was dividing by 12, because there are 12 unique amulets.

[highlight]Issue 2[/highlight]: "Give me a prove that stormlash should be for 17 a place of 34"

I cannot give you a prove, because it's not a theorem. I can give you a very good reason though.

Finding a unique Scourge is 5.7 times more difficult than finding an IKSC. That means in my opinion that on average, a unique Scourge should give 5.7 points. Stormlash should be worth 5 times more than Horizon's, because it's 5 times harder to find.

What set of numbers guarantees that average expected score of a unique Scourge is 5.7, while making sure that Stormlash is worth 5 times more than Horizon's? Stormlash = 17.0, Horizon's = 3.4.

That's the logic behind my reasoning, not just dividing by 2. It's just a coincidence that that's the method that results in my stated goal.

I hope that clarifies the issue.

--Greebo

 

[Kitteh1]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

What about some kind of reward for finding something that nobody else has found?

 

[jjscud]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

What about some kind of reward for finding something that nobody else has found?

Sounds interesting, but its the rarest of items that are usually found by one person and not others. I would really rather bring the super rare item's score down so that they are not an autowin rather than increasing their score.

 

[jjscud]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

I do not think that my suggestions were narrow-minded. I will also take this statement from you with a grain of salt. Narrow-mindedness is a quality that I very much strive not to have. I do not particularly see how my suggestions were such, but that's perhaps not very pertinent to this discussion.

I also don't think the changes I suggested would be meaningless.

Sorry, that was my mistake, I lost track of which previously suggested changes were being referenced. Changing just the lower half of the 4 item in question as was argued early on would be narrow-minded now that we better understand all the inconsistencies going on.

I think at this point I've done a decent enough job of convincing a few people to my point about Tyrael's, Stormlash, Azurewrath and Schaefer's. It seems that I didn't convince you. That's OK and I think I'll stop trying.

Actually I think using the expected value method discussed earlier would be interesting and does appear to be popular. I don't fully agree with it but I think there's more good than bad to it.

If Fabian and Bassano both agree to it, I'll change the score sheets that I have. If just Fabian wants it I'll get score sheets put together before the next MFO.

 

[Fabian]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

I think making that change is a good thing. It might not be perfect in every way, but nothing seems to be.

 

[Colorless Green]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

I'm just gonna say up front here that I have read absolutely nothing but jj's first post as of the time of this writing (though I'm probably going to go back and read everything else at some point, because this is an area I've been very much interested in for a while).

This is what I've theorycrafted on my own while doing runs in basically every MFO I've been in ever:


Base Score = Chance of TC dropping (with TC retaining the difference between weapon/armor/etc as well as set/unique/etc, and normalized to IK Maul or whatever the low point becomes (if it changes))

Double-uniques with equal probability = Base Score

Double-uniques with unequal probability (common one) = Base Score

Double-uniques with unequal probability (rare one) = Base Score * (1 + (X/10))
...where X is the denominator of its rarity (such that if only 1 out of 5 of this base item that drops is unique, X is 5, and the Base Score is multiplied by 1.5, or if it's 1 out of 20 Base Score is multiplied by 3)


This accounts for everything I'd thought of at the time while still giving a bonus to the uberrares. A Tyrael's would still be pretty hard to beat, but substantially more attainable.

Now (probably) off to actually read the thread.

-CG


edit: Scrolling up by like a post makes it apparent somebody's already figured something out, which probably makes any of this much less relevant.

edit2: Incidentally, (X/10) is basically arbitrary; (X/5) or something would be just as good if you wanted a one-in-ten unique to do more than double in score.

edit3: Okay, I didn't actually read the entire thread, but I read most of it, which was enough to realize a few things:

(1) It looks like (more or less) people are aiming at either TC-based scoring, or some other method of accounting for weighty TC's and double-uniques and whatnot.

(2) My Base Score figure should have also itemized retaining differences based on being class specific or any of the other base item-based rarities.

(3) You're actually looking at the actual numbers rather than the principles, which is more in depth than I've gone with it, so I don't have a terribly large amount to contribute.

edit4: I think I'm about to say basically what Jason said except from the other direction, but how about something like:

-Start with odds of TC
-If a rarer base item type (e.g. class specific), multiply by the difference between rarer base and usual base
-If unique, multiply by the difference in rarity between set and unique for a 400 MF (or whatever) char
-If a double-unique or whatever with weighted rarity, multiply the rarer by a proportion of the difference between the rarer and what an equivalent single-unique would be

Doing that is pretty close to following the exact algorithm the game uses when picking an item, except removing a couple of the problematic steps.

 

[bassano]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

If Fabian and Bassano both agree to it, I'll change the score sheets that I have. If just Fabian wants it I'll get score sheets put together before the next MFO.

No problem from my side, It is your score sheet anyway
For current Area85 Tournament I will use classic old scoring system as I said before and then prolly in next tournament I will make change

 

[jjscud]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

Ok, here's the expected value scoring of several recent MFOs and a lvl 85 tournament. Changes in position from the original scoring are highlighted. Overall, I would have to say I like it, Tyrael's is still dominant but it is not a game winner all by itsself. I still dislike cutting the lower halves of the items (horizon's, Templar's ...) but if that's a concern for a competitor, they're probably out of the running anyways so I could overlook it.

First two notes:

Two stars (**) indicates that the player's score may be a bit higher, one of the items score was cut and is now below their lowest reported find.

Three stars (***) indicates the same as above, except that there is another player outscored them by less than that difference so the player may actually move up a spot with other finds.

MFO winter 2011

Other 85 Areas

1. bassano [1.13c SC FAM] - 115.8 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Tyrael's Might - 48.2
Stormlash - 17
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Darkforce Spawn - 19.3
Darkforce Spawn - 19.3

2. jdkerr [1.13c SC FAM] - 101.8 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Death's Web - 27.9
Death's Web - 27.9
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Dragonscale - 14.6
Ravelore - 14.6

3. scrcrw [1.13c SC FAM] - 96.1 [highlight](-1)**[/highlight]
Tyrael's Might - 48.2
Azurewrath - 7.8
Dragonscale - 14.6
Spirit Keeper - 14.2
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3

4. zarqu [1.13c SC FAM] - 80.1 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Mang Song's Lesson - 27.8
Darkforce Spawn - 19.3
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Boneflame - 10.4

5. Fabian [1.13c SC FAM] - 71.8 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Ravenlore - 14.6
Ravenlore - 14.6
Spirit Keeper - 14.2
Spirit Keeper - 14.2
Spirit Keeper - 14.2

6. Kimppi [1.13c SC FAM] - 69.2 [highlight](-2)***[/highlight]
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Azurewrath - 7.8
Cerebus' Bite - 11
Cerebus' Bite - 11

7. ThomH [1.13c SC FAM] - 68.0
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Ravenlore - 14.6
Dragonscale - 14.6
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Shadow Dancer - 10.7

------

AT

1. Zaliqai [1.13c SC FAM] - 98.5 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Stormlash - 17
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Mang Song's Lesson - 27.8
Dragonscale - 14.6
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3

2. sequana [1.13c SC FAM] - 90.1 [highlight](-1)[/highlight]
Tyrael's Might - 48.2
Steelrend - 10.7
Griffon's Eye - 10.7
Griffon's Eye - 10.7
The Redeemer - 9.8

3. jimsfriend [1.13c SC FAM] - 89.6
Death's Web - 27.9
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Cerebus' Bite - 11

4. bcoe [1.13c SC FAM] - 73.7 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Ravenlore - 14.6
Dragonscale - 14.6
Templar’s Might - 6.0
Shadow Dancer - 10.7

5. Grisu [1.13c HC FAM] - 52.2 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Azurewrath - 7.8
Azurewrath - 7.8
Ravenlore - 14.6
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Steelrend - 10.7

6. janooo [1.13c SC FAM] - 50.2 [highlight]***[/highlight]
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Templar's Might - 6.0
Templar's Might - 6.0
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
Steelrend - 10.7

7. TheReadMenace [1.13c SC FAM] - 50.2
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Death Cleaver - 9.3
Giant Skull - 8.1
Steel Carapace - 8.1
Demonhorn's Edge - 7.9

8. nualum [1.13c SC FAM] - 43.8
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
Earth Shifter - 9.3
Spirit Ward - 8.1
Demonhorn's Edge - 7.9
Ondal's Wisdom - 7.8

9. poopie_pants [1.13c SC FAM] - 37.7
Dragonscale - 14.6
Steel Carapace - 8.1
Veil of Steel - 5.7
Marrowalk - 5
Tomb Reaver - 4.3

10. atroz [1.13c SC FAM] - 24.6
Wolfhowl - 7.3
Thunderstroke - 4.7
Thunderstroke - 4.7
Cranebeak - 4.3
Razor's Edge - 3.6

11. icbat [1.13c SC FAM] - 24.3
Steelrend - 10.7
Bul-Kathos' Tribal Guardian - 3.8
Trang-Oul's Guise - 3.3
Taebaek's Glory - 3.3 
Tal Rasha's Guardianship - 3.2

MFO Summer 2010

Other 85 areas

1. Thomh [1.13c SC FAM] - 105.9 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Death's Web - 27.9
Mang Song's Lesson - 27.8
Schafer's Hammer - 11.6
Darkforce Spawn - 19.3
Darkforce Spawn - 19.3

2. scrcrw [1.13c HC FAM] - 67.8 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Stormlash - 17
Dragonscale - 14.6
Spirit Keeper - 14.2
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Crown of Ages - 10.7

3. NagisaFurukawa [1.13c SC FAM] - 62.4 [highlight](-1)***[/highlight]
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Azurewrath - 7.8
Ravenlore - 14.6

4. zerth [1.13c SC FAM] - 50.7 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Steelrend - 10.7
Griffon's Eye - 10.7
Griffon's Eye - 10.7
Gargoyle's Bite - 9.3
Steel Pillar - 9.3

4. jjscud [1.13c SC FAM] - 48.7 [highlight](-1)[/highlight]
Azurewrath - 7.8
Spirit Keeper - 14.2
Ghostflame - 9.3
Steel Pillar - 9.3
Steel Carapace - 8.1

6. frozzzen [1.13c SC FAM] - 42.5
Spirit Keeper - 14.2
Earth Shifter - 9.3
Steel Carapace - 8.1
Eaglehorn - 5.7
M'avina's Caster - 5.2

---------

AT

1. Steven Q Urkel [1.13c SC FAM] - 79.8
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Darkforce Spawn - 19.3
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Ghostflame - 9.3
Nosferatu's Coil - 6.6

2. omgwtfbbqpwned [1.13c SC FAM] - 62.5 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Darkforce Spawn - 19.3
Dragonscale - 14.6
Cerebus' Bite - 11
Templar's Might - 6.0

3. Paradigmshift [1.13c SC FAM] - 52.3
Cerebus' Bite - 11.0
Griffon's Eye - 10.7
Halaberd's Reign - 10.4
Halaberd's Reign - 10.4
The Redeemer - 9.8

4. Chairnick [1.13c SC FAM] - 51
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Crown of Ages - 10.7
Boneflame - 10.4
Executioner's Justice - 9.3
Gargoyle's Bite - 9.3

5. Darke Rahl [1.10 SC FAM] - 50.9
Spirit Keeper - 15.6
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
Griswold's Honor - 9.8
Giant Skull - 8.1
Steel Carapace - 8.1

6. Rummski [1.13c SC FAM] - 49.2
Dragonscale - 14.6
The Cranium Basher - 9.3
Gargoyle's Bite - 9.3
The Grandfather - 9.3
Blood Raven's Charge - 6.7

7. bassano [1.12 SC FAM] - 28.7
Giant Skull - 8.1
Arkaine's Valor - 7.8
Dracul's Grasp - 5.9
Sazabi's Ghost Liberator - 3.1
Bul-Kathos' Sacred Charge - 3.8

MFO Winter 2010

AT

1. frozzen [1.12a SC FAM] - 112.8
Tyrael's Might - 48.2
Mang Song's Lesson - 27.8
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
The Cranium Basher - 9.3

2. Nagisa [1.12a SC FAM] - 71.7 [highlight](+1)**[/highlight]
Stormlash 17.0
Azurewrath 7.8
Ravenlore 14.6
Dragonscale 14.6
Dragonscale 14.6

3. Sequana [1.12a SC FAM] - 61.7 [highlight](-1)**[/highlight]
Stormlash 17
Stormlash 17
Cerebus’ Bite 11
Templar’s Might 6.0
Griffon’s Eye 10.7

4. Machette [1.12a HC FAM] - 59.8
Ravenlore 14.6
Spirit Keeper 14.2
Cerebus' Bite 11
Steelrend 10.7
The Cranium Basher 9.3

5. Raskash [1.13a SC FAM] - 38,0
Shadow Dancer 10,7
Demonhorn's Edge 7,9
Arkaine's Valor 7,8
Dracul's Grasp 5,9
Leviathan 5,7

6. NeckRomancer [1.11 SC FAM] - 29.8 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Griffons Eye 10.7
Horizons Tornado 3.4
Eaglehorn 5.7
Marrowwalk 5
Stormshield 5 

7. EightDigitSin [1.13a SC FAM] - 25.6 [highlight](-1)[/highlight]
Templar's Might 6.0
Templar's Might 6.0
Blood Raven's Charge 6.7
Cranebeak 4.3
Lightsabre 2.6

----------

other 85 areas

1. jjscud [1.13a SC FAM] - 68.2 [highlight](+3)[/highlight]
Dragonscale - 14.6
Ravenlore - 14.6
Dragonscale - 14.6
Ravenlore - 14.6
Griswold's Honor - 9.8

2. GabrielSylar [1.12a SC FAM] - 59.9 [highlight](-1)**[/highlight]
Stormlash - 17.0
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Ravenlore - 14.6
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
Templar's Might - 6.0

3. Joosh [1.12a SC FAM] - 56.6 [highlight](+2)[/highlight]
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Dragonscale - 14.6
Crown of Ages - 10.7
Halaberd's Reign - 10.4
The Grandfather - 9.3

4. CorruptedMollusk [1.12a SC FAM] - 55.5 [highlight](-2)***[/highlight]
Azurewrath - 7.8
Azurewrath - 7.8
Dragonscale - 14.6
Dragonscale - 14.6
Griffon's Eye - 10.7

5. DX-Crawler [1.13a SC FAM] - 53.9 [highlight](-2)***[/highlight]
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Ravenlore - 14.6
Cerebus' Bite - 11
Templar's Might - 6.0
Shadow Dancer - 10.7

6. zerth [1.13a SC FAM] - 38.0
Executioner's Justice - 9.3
Ghostflame - 9.3
Head Hunter's Glory - 7.8
Dracul's Grasp - 5.9
Medusa's Gaze - 5.7

7. Rummski [1.12a SC FAM] - 36.8
Windforce - 9.3
Alma Negra - 9.1
Spirit Ward - 8.1
Eaglehorn - 5.7
Messerschmidt's Reaver - 4.6

8. maxicek [1.12a SC FAM] - 29.2
Death Cleaver - 9.3
Arachnid Mesh - 5.9
Marrowwalk - 5.0
Thunderstroke - 4.7
Wraith Flight - 4.3

MFO Summer 2009

Area 85

1. maareek [1.12 SC FAM] - 116.8 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Tyrael's Might - 48.2
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Ravenlore - 14.6
Ravenlore - 14.6

2. Hrus [1.12 SC Vanilla] - 102.4
Tyrael's Might - 48.2
Stormlash - 17.0
Ravenlore - 14.6
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3

3. colony [1.12 SC FAM] - 98.7 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Death's Web - 27.9
Asteron's Iron Ward - 27.8
Schaefer's Hammer - 11.6
Death's Fathom - 16.8
Ravenlore - 14.6

4. jjscud [1.12 SC FAM] - 80.8 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Death's Web - 27.9
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Azurewrath - 7.8
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3
Templar's Might - 6.0

5. Jaedhann [1.12 SC FAM] - 75.7 [highlight]**[/highlight]
Mang Song's Lesson - 27.8
Azurewrath - 7.8
Ravenlore - 14.6
Spirit Keeper - 14.2
Griswold's Redemption - 11.3

6. DX-Crawler [1.12 SC FAM] - 72.4 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Deaths Web - 27.9
Darkforce - Spawn 19.3
Windforce - 9.3
Spirit Ward - 8.1
Head Hunters Glory - 7.8

7. bassano [1.12 SC FAM] - 68.1 [highlight](+1)[/highlight]
Astreon's Iron Ward - 27.8
Cerebus' Bite - 11
Crown of Ages - 10.7
Windforce - 9.3
Death Cleaver - 9.3

8. Thomh [1.12 HC FAM] - 59.2 [highlight](-2)[/highlight]
Stormlash - 17
Steelrend - 10.7
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
Boneflame - 10.4
Halaberd's Reign - 10.4

9. Joosh [1.12 SC FAM] - 51.5
Cerebus' Bite - 11
Steelrend - 10.7
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
Heaven's Light - 9.8
Gargoyle's Bite - 9.3

10. frozzzen [1.12 SC FAM] - 49.3
Shadow Dancer - 10.7
Steelrend - 10.7
Steel Pillar - 9.3
Ghostflame - 9.3
Ghostflame - 9.3

11. hepcat [1.12 SC FAM] - 36
Griffon's Eye - 10.7
Head Hunter's Glory - 7.8
Arachnid Mesh - 5.9
Dracul's Grasp - 5.9
Nightwing's Veil - 5.7

alvl 85 tourney, 2009

1. frozzzen - CoTa [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Stormlash - 17 
2. Death's Web - 27.9 
3. Spirit Keeper - 14.2 
4. Boneflame - 10.4 
5. Executioner Justice - 9.3 
Total 78.8 points


2. Nagisa - Ushio [highlight](+2)**[/highlight]

1. Astreon's Iron Ward 27.8
2. Schaefer's Hammer 11.6
3. Azurewrath 7.8
4. Dragonscale 14.6
5. Griswold's Redemption 11.3
Total 73.1 points


3. Nagisa - Reinforce 

1. Astreon's Iron Ward 27.8
2. Schaefer's Hammer 11.6
3. Schaefer's Hammer 11.6
4. Halaberd's Reign 10.4
5. Griswold's Honor 9.8
Total 71.0 points


4. Mungo - Iam-Overburden [highlight](-3)[/highlight]

1. Tyrael's Might 48.2
2. Steel Shade 6.6
3. Marrowwalk 5.0
4. Messerschmidt's Reaver 4.6
5. Wraith Flight 4.3
Total 68.7 points


5. CorruptedMollusk - FrigidHotPants [highlight](+3)[/highlight]

1. Astreon's Iron Ward 27.8
2. Steelrend 10.7
3. Steelrend 10.7
4. Ghostflame 9.3
5. Gargoyle's Bite 9.3
Total 67.8 points


6. San - Cheyenne [highlight](+3)[/highlight]

1. Death's Web 27.9
2. Halaberd's Reign 10.4
3. Griswold's Honor 9.8
4. Griswold's Honor 9.8
5. Windforce 9.3
Total 67.2 points


7. Pyrohemia - Electra [highlight](+3)[/highlight]

1. Astreon's Iron Ward 27.8
2. Crown of Ages 10.7
3. Windforce 9.3
4. Executioner's Justice 9.3
5. Boneshade 7.9
Total 65.1 points


8. maareek - GibCouncilGrief [highlight](+3)[/highlight]

1. Death's Web 27.9
2. Boneflame 10.4
3. Gargoyle's Bite 9.3
4. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
5. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
Total 63.4 points


9. Nirolo - Khalla [highlight](-3)[/highlight]

1. Schaefer's Hammer 11.6
2. Darkforce Spawn 19.3
3. Cerebus' Bite 11
4. Griswold's Honor 9.8
5. Spirit Ward 8.1
Total 59.8 points


10. Scotee - Denver [highlight](-3)[/highlight]

1. Schaefer's Hammer 11.6
2. Dragonscale 14.6
3. Spirit Keeper 14.2
4. Windforce 9.3
5. Stormspire 9.3
Total 59.0 points 


11. maareek - Blizzy [highlight](-6)**[/highlight]

1. Schaefer's Hammer 11.6
2. Azurewrath 7.8
3. Ravenlore 14.6
4. Griswold's Redemption 11.3
5. Griffon's Eye 10.7
Total 56.0 points


12. Kimppi - Kylmyys

1. Dragonscale 14.6
2. Halaberd's Reign 10.4
3. The Redeemer 9.8
4. Earth Shifter 9.3
5. Gargoyle's Bite 9.3
Total 53.4 points


13. TheReadMenace - Meteoric_Fault

1. Ravenlore 14.6
2. Steelrend 10.7
3. Gargoyle's Bite 9.3
4. Death Cleaver 9.3
5. Windforce 9.3
Total 53.2 Points


14. sirpoopsalot - Athena

1. Ravenlore 14.6
2. Gris' Redemption 11.3
3. Shadow Dancer 10.7
4. Spirit Ward 8.1
5. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
Total 52.6 points


15. iLoco - Coraline

1.Cerebus’ Bite 11
2.Crown of Ages 10.7
3.Shadow Dancer 10.7
4.Griswold’s Honor 9.8
5.The Cranium Basher 9.3 
Total 51.5 points


16. Pyrohemia - Maud-Dib

1. Steelrend 10.7
2. Steelrend 10.7
3. Halaberd's Reign 10.4
4. The Redeemer 9.8
5. Griswold's Honor 9.8
Total 51.4 points


17. Ohomemgrande - Blizz

1. Spirit Keeper - 14.2
2. Shadow Dancer - 10.7
3. The Grandfather - 9.3
4. Executioner's Justice - 9.3
5. Steel Shade - 6.6
Total 50.1 points


18. krovak - Hylinda

1. Griswold's Redemption 11.3
2. Cerebus' Bite 11
3. The Redeemer 9.8
4. Gargoyle's Bite 9.3
5. Ondal's Wisdom 7.8
Total 49.2 points


19. Machete - RideTheMaul 

1. Azurewrath 15.6
2. Stormspire 9.3
3. Steel Pillar 9.3
4. Giant Skull 8.1
5. Soul Drainer 6.6
Total 48.9 points


20. Mungo - Inlore

Death's Fathom 16.8
Dragonscale 14.6
Wolfhowl 7.3
Doombringer 5.7
Widowmaker 4.3
Total 48.7 points


21. jjscud - Cyanide 

1. Dragonscale 14.6
2. Steelrend 10.7
3. Stormspire 9.3
4. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
5. Blackoak Shield 5.9
Total 48.4 points


22. thomh - Brrrbabe 

1. Halaberd's Reign 10.4 
2. The Redeemer 9.8
3. Windforce 9.3
4. The Grandfather 9.3
5. Executioner's Justice 9.3
Total 48.1 points


23. Chairnick - Gendale

1. Shadow Dancer 10.7
2. Halaberd's Reign 10.4
3. The Redeemer 9.8
4. The Cranium Basher 9.3
5. Head Hunter's Glory 7.8
Total 48.0 points 


24. Machete - Stormy

1. Griswold's Redemption 11.3
2. Heaven's Light 9.8
3. Windforce 9.3
4. The Cranium Basher 9.3
5. Spirit Ward 8.1
Total 47.8 points


25. Neck Romancer - Solarctic [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Bone Flame 10.4
2. The Grandfather 9.3
3. Stormspire 9.3
4. Spirit Ward 8.1
5. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
Total 45.0 points


26. sequana - Orion [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Griswold's Redemption 11.3
2. Boneflame 10.4
3. Boneshade 7.9
4. Wolfhowl 7.3
5. Spike Thorn 6.6
total 43.5


27. bassano - blizzardmaster [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Steelrend 10.7
2. Ghostflame 9.3
3. Spirit Ward 8.1
4. Boneshade 7.9
5. Wolfhowl 7.3
Total 43.3 points


28. Nagisa - Hayate [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Earth Shifter 9.3
2. Steel Pillar 9.3
3. Steel Pillar 9.3
4. Spirit Ward 8.1
5. Wolfhowl 7.3
Total 43.3 points


29. Sir Lister Of Smeg - Snowstorm [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Dragonscale 14.6
2. Boneshade 7.9
3. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
4. Stoneraven 6
5. Veil Of Steel 5.7
Total 42.1 points


30. LD50 - Lumi [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Steelrend 10.7
2. Halaberd's Reign 10.4
3. Blood Raven's Charge 6.7
4. Blood Raven's Charge 6.7
5. Steel Shade 6.6
Total 41.1 points


31. Kefka - Bellok_Hdin [highlight](-6)[/highlight]

1. Templar's Might 6.0
2. Crown of Ages 10.7
3. Earth Shifter 9.3
4. Death Cleaver 9.3
5. Veil of Steel 5.7
Total 41.0 points


32. Potter - Ral_Tasha 

1. The Grandfather 9.3
2. Steel Carapace 8.1
3. Giant Skull 8.1
4. Arkaine's Valor 7.8
5. Dracul's Grasp 5.9
Total 39.2 points


33. Mungo - Mungo

1. Halaberd's Reign 10.4
2. Spirit Ward 8.1
3. Wolfhowl 7.3
4. Steel Shade 6.6
5. Nosferatu's coil 6.6
Total 39.0 points


34. Jabari - Hanhebi [highlight](+2)[/highlight]

1. Stormspire 9.3
2. The Grandfather 9.3
3. Arkaine's Valor 7.8
4. Blood Raven's Charge 6.7
5. Firelizard's Talons 5.2
Total 38.3 points


35. thomh - Mozzarella 

1. Griswold's Redemption 11.3
2. Death Cleaver 9.3
3. Steel Shade 6.6
4. Horizon's Tornado 3.4
5. Veil of Steel 5.7
Total 36.3** points


36. Jason Maher - Wetherill [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Windforce 9.3 
2. The Grandfather 9.3
3. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
4. Stormshield 5.0 
5. Wraith Flight 4.3
Total 35.8 points


37. Rummski - Milenko [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Spirit Ward 8.1
2. Demonhorn's Edge 7.9
3. Blood Raven's Charge 6.7
4. Nosferatu's Coil 6.6
5. Mavina's Caster 5.2
Total 34.5 points


38. Albatross - Divinity [highlight](+2)[/highlight]

1. Stormspire 9.3
2. The Cranium Basher 9.3
3. Gut Siphon 4.6
4. Eschuta's Temper 4.6
5. Widowmaker 4.3
Total 32.1 points


39. EmperorMoo - Baronet [highlight](+2)[/highlight]

1. Spirit Keeper 14.6
2. Blackoak Shield 5.9
3. Firelizard's Talons 5.2
4. M'avina's True Sight 4.3
5. Shadow Killer 2.4
Total 32.0 points


40. TheReadMenace - SclerosesReigns  [highlight](-1)***[/highlight]

1. Cerberus' Bite - 11
2. Horizon's Tornado - 3.4
3. Medusa's Gaze - 5.7
4. Medusa's Gaze - 5.7
5. Mavina's Caster - 5.2
Total 31.0 points


41. Horseheadnebula - Sirius  [highlight](-7)[/highlight]

1. Azurewrath 7.8
2. Arachnid Mesh 5.9
3. Leviathan 5.7
4. Warshrike 5.7
5. Veil of Steel 5.7
Total 30.8 points


42. nepeta - Miserere

1. The Grandfather 9.3
2. Veil of Steel 5.7
3. M'avina's Caster 5.2
4. Verdungo's Hearty Cord 4.3
5. Natalya's Mark 4.3
Total 28.8 points


43. sirpoopsalot - IgorHorkov

1. Steelrend 10.7
2. The Grandfather 9.3
3. Taebaek's Glory 3.3
4. Lightsabre 1.6
Total 24.9 points


44. Mursilis - Hades

1. Griswold's Redemption 11.3
2. Eaglehorn 5.7
3. Aldur's Deception 3.3
4. Ethereal Edge 2.5
5. Sazabi's Cobalt Redeemer 1.9
Total 24.7 points


45. Neksja - Cheeser

1. Spirit Ward 8.1
2. Verdungo's Hearty Cord 4.3
3. Harlequin Crest 4.1
4. Bul-Kathos' Tribal Guardian 3.8
5. Bul-Kathos' Tribal Guardian 3.8
Total 24.1 points


46. Mungo - Breserus [highlight](+1)[/highlight]

1. Andariel's Visage 4.3
2. Sandstorm Trek 3.9
3. Sandstorm Trek 3.9
4. Demon's Arch 3.3
5. The Reaper's toll 3.3
Total 18.7 points


47. Tubba Blubba - LookAboveYouMep [highlight](-1)[/highlight]

Horizon's Tornado 3.4
Immortal King's Soul Cage 4.3
Bul-Kathos' Sacred Charge 3.7
Natalya's Mark 3.7
Shadow Killer 2.4
Total 17.5 points

 

[jdkerr]

Re: Tournament Scoring Discussion

Making mental adjustments for the likelihood that scores would have been slightly better (e.g. Schaefer's Hammer might very well not be on Bassano's recent top5), I like those results quite a bit, at least at first glance.