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Vessel of Hatred

LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Here we go, further confirmation that Um and lower patterns are not changing but Mal - Ber patterns are. (To save anyone the trouble, all the Um and lower patterns match the older p8 thread while the Mal and Vex do not.)

Still, most of these are off of my simulators which are susceptible so a matching Mal+ real drop would go a long ways.

Edit: added another new Mal pattern and this is all at players 7/8 right now.

Code: 
Rune  /pX Item#1              Item#2              Item#3              Item#4              Poster
Io
-

Lum
      8   Battle Axe          Field Plate                                                 jjscud
 
Ko	    
-

Fal
      8   Bramble Mitts       Colossus Voulge     Hand Scythe         + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Crossbow            Wire Fleece                                                 Post #140
      8   Grand Charm         Ring                                                        Post #140
      8   Greaves             Light Crossbow      Long Bow            + 3 more            Post #140
 
Lem
      8   Battle Axe          Broad Sword         Burnt Wand          + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Bone Wand           El Rune             Mesh Belt           + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Breast Plate        Casque              Composite Bow                           Post #140
      8   Demonhide Boots     Grand Scepter       Heater              + 2 more            Post #140
 
Pul
      8   Amulet              Heavy Gloves        Hydra Edge          Ring                Post #140
      8   Bill                Bone Shield         Brandistock x 2     + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Blade               Tyrant Club                                                 Post #140
      8   Ornate Plate        War Axe                                                     Post #140
 
Um
      8   Ancient Sword       Battle Staff        Casque              + 5 more            Post #140
 
Mal
      8   Bone Knife          Flail               Great Helm          + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Spiculum                                                                        Post #140

Ist
- 
 
Gul
-
 
Vex
      8   Flanged Mace        Heavy Belt          Heavy Crossbow      Suwayyah            Post #140

 
Ohm
-
 
Lo
-
 
Sur
     
 
Ber
-
 
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Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

@jjscud: Player settings? Maybe I'd do a few runs. Feeling kind of bored with my characters.
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Running on P8, found a Lem with the pattern as follows

Bearded Axe, War Axe, Flying Knife, Greaves, Hatchet, Bone Helm

New...not new...I do not know, but its a find and hopefully helps you out. Ill keep running on P8 for a few days, post more finds hopefully.
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Pijus said:
@jjscud: Player settings?
Click to expand...

It was on players8 - just like the table specifies. ;)

Ohomemgrande said:
...That would be sad.
Click to expand...

Maybe not.

For example, if the /players8 Sur gets lowered down to a Lo, I'd be perfectly happy with that result (i.e. you could run for maximized charm & jewel drops, and still get a more useful rune than Sur out of the bargain).



 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

sirpoopsalot said:
It was on players8 - just like the table specifies. ;)



Maybe not.

For example, if the /players8 Sur gets lowered down to a Lo, I'd be perfectly happy with that result (i.e. you could run for maximized charm & jewel drops, and still get a more useful rune than Sur out of the bargain).
Click to expand...

Because of the table structure, the low rune would never drop to a lower TC so Sur wouldn't change (as it's paired with the higher Ber). If the RNG rolled a 1, 2, or 3 before (results for the low rune), lowering the "next rune TC" numbers would only make the 1, 2, or 3 closer to 1. If the RNG rolled a 4 or 5 before, (results for the high rune) in the new system it's possible that the 4 would be pushed to a 3 and that the Ber would be pushed to a Sur. But, if a Sur was going to be rolled in the 1.12, it would always be rolled in 1.13. At the same time, that 6 that was rolled in 1.12 (which would drop the rune selection to the Ohm/Lo TC) may be pushed down to 5 in 1.13 and therefore give a Ber.



 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Ohomemgrande said:
Because of the table structure, the low rune would never drop to a lower TC so Sur wouldn't change (as it's paired with the higher Ber). If the RNG rolled a 1, 2, or 3 before (results for the low rune), lowering the "next rune TC" numbers would only make the 1, 2, or 3 closer to 1. If the RNG rolled a 4 or 5 before, (results for the high rune) in the new system it's possible that the 4 would be pushed to a 3 and that the Ber would be pushed to a Sur. But, if a Sur was going to be rolled in the 1.12, it would always be rolled in 1.13. At the same time, that 6 that was rolled in 1.12 (which would drop the rune selection to the Ohm/Lo TC) may be pushed down to 5 in 1.13 and therefore give a Ber.
Click to expand...

The drop algorithm does not work like that because the modulo operator (unless the programming is very odd) is used to get a random number of the right range rather than some sort of scaling. When the desired range is shifted then the outcome is essentially randomized due to wrapping around a large number of times around so a Sur could also become a Ber or most likely become a rune of a lower tier.


 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Pyrohemia said:
The drop algorithm does not work like that because the modulo operator (unless the programming is very odd) is used to get a random number of the right range rather than some sort of scaling. When the desired range is shifted then the outcome is essentially randomized due to wrapping around a large number of times around so a Sur could also become a Ber or most likely become a rune of a lower tier.
Click to expand...

Ah, very interesting to know. So were are going to be looking at a whole new random set of HRs.



Ok, more drops, of interest is the new Ohm pattern.

However, of much more interest is the new Fal pattern. El Rune, Studded Leather, War Axe is mostly similar to the old Sur Pattern. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it is the old Sur pattern, except the old Grand Crown was rolled after the Sur and now, since the rune roll went through more rune TCs, it had a new random value after the Fal was rolled so the drops after that would be different, resulting in a partial match.

Code: 
Rune  /pX Item#1              Item#2              Item#3              Item#4              Poster
Io
-

Lum
      8   Battle Axe          Field Plate                                                 jjscud
 
Ko	    
-

Fal
      8   Bramble Mitts       Colossus Voulge     Hand Scythe         + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Crossbow            Wire Fleece                                                 Post #140
      8   El Rune             Studded Leather     War Axe                                 Post #140
      8   Grand Charm         Ring                                                        Post #140
      8   Greaves             Light Crossbow      Long Bow            + 3 more            Post #140

 
Lem
      8   Battle Axe          Broad Sword         Burnt Wand          + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Bearded Axe         Bone Helm           Flying Knife        + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Bone Wand           El Rune             Mesh Belt           + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Breast Plate        Casque              Composite Bow                           Post #140
      8   Demonhide Boots     Grand Scepter       Heater              + 2 more            Post #140
 
Pul
      8   Amulet              Heavy Gloves        Hydra Edge          Ring                Post #140
      8   Bill                Bone Shield         Brandistock x 2     + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Blade               Tyrant Club                                                 Post #140
      8   Ornate Plate        War Axe                                                     Post #140
 
Um
      8   Ancient Sword       Battle Staff        Casque              + 5 more            Post #140
 
Mal
      8   Bone Knife          Flail               Great Helm          + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Spiculum                                                                        Post #140

Ist
- 
 
Gul
-
 
Vex
      8   Flanged Mace        Heavy Belt          Heavy Crossbow      Suwayyah            Post #140

 
Ohm
      8   Amn Rune            Falcata             Shako               War Javelin         Post #140
 
Lo
-
 
Sur
     
 
Ber
-



 
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Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Pyrohemia said:
The drop algorithm does not work like that because the modulo operator (unless the programming is very odd) is used to get a random number of the right range rather than some sort of scaling. When the desired range is shifted then the outcome is essentially randomized due to wrapping around a large number of times around so a Sur could also become a Ber or most likely become a rune of a lower tier.
Click to expand...

I won't claim to be an expert in how to program a random number generator (or anything else for that matter) :)

I'm still trying to make sure I understand this however in the context of the rune drops so I probably need a bit more explanation.

Are you basically saying that there is a very large number generated (larger than the total number of drop chances) which is then subject to a modulo operation of something like this: (very big number) mod (total number of drop chance). I'm assuming that the "very big number" is somewhat related to the ~65k worth of drop possibilities that we believe LK chests have.

Any additional information on how this works would be interesting and useful to know.



 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Ohomemgrande said:
Are you basically saying that there is a very large number generated (larger than the total number of drop chances) which is then subject to a modulo operation of something like this: (very big number) mod (total number of drop chance). I'm assuming that the "very big number" is somewhat related to the ~65k worth of drop possibilities that we believe LK chests have.
Click to expand...

I believe that the bolded part is the basic idea.

However, the "very big number" is not directly related to the 65K limit. It would still be a full 32 bit random number that looks just like any other rune roll in the game. The limiting factor is that the seed to the whole chest pick operation is only 16 bits so there's only the 65K different sets of random patterns.



 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

There was a very similar study done on one of the major poker sites back in the early 2000's when it was discovered that they only had a 32 bit seed to randomize a 52 card deck. 2^32 is far far less than 52!, so there was a majority of decks that could never be dealt. A computer was needed, but after the first 10 or so cards were revealed (say in a 7 card stud game), the remaining cards could be predicted within the time for a normal player to act. The flaw was discovered and fixed, but the theory is essentially the same as we're seeing here.
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Just an interesting note. There was still some question as to if my methods were correct. My concoction consisted of a 1.13 and 1.12 mix and I wasn't positive it was finding the correct new patterns.

However, last night I found this on another forum and check my records and sure enough there's a match. I've found a p1 Vex with just a maul too so in case anyone's curious (probably not) the ones I've found are correct.


On to a bit more serious matter, I have some issues with the SPF economy these days and for once its not its legitness. It just gets richer and richer without a reset. As such, I'm doing this against my better judgement but there's a lot of effort here and you all will get there sooner or later. I'll leave the enjoyment of finding exactly what's out there but I'll make it simple.

In 1.13, run P5.

Ah why not, while I'm at it, there's a Jah at p7 RoF. It is NOT the most efficient way to get those runes but if you really want to lay your eyes on a Jah, its there.
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

jjscud, from reading your post I get the feeling you know the exact drop patterns on each player setting. Is this correct? If so, I think many of us would like to know exactly how effecient LK running (or indeed RoF running) would be.
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Well, started running on p5 after reading that last post and this just dropped. Sur on p5? :scratchchin:

Edit: it is indeed p5, not p8 :)

Code: 
Rune  /pX Item#1              Item#2              Item#3              Item#4              Poster
Io
-

Lum
      8   Battle Axe          Field Plate                                                 jjscud
 
Ko	    
-

Fal
      8   Bramble Mitts       Colossus Voulge     Hand Scythe         + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Crossbow            Wire Fleece                                                 Post #140
      8   El Rune             Studded Leather     War Axe                                 Post #140
      8   Grand Charm         Ring                                                        Post #140
      8   Greaves             Light Crossbow      Long Bow            + 3 more            Post #140

 
Lem
      8   Battle Axe          Broad Sword         Burnt Wand          + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Bearded Axe         Bone Helm           Flying Knife        + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Bone Wand           El Rune             Mesh Belt           + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Breast Plate        Casque              Composite Bow                           Post #140
      8   Demonhide Boots     Grand Scepter       Heater              + 2 more            Post #140
 
Pul
      8   Amulet              Heavy Gloves        Hydra Edge          Ring                Post #140
      8   Bill                Bone Shield         Brandistock x 2     + 2 more            Post #140
      8   Blade               Tyrant Club                                                 Post #140
      8   Ornate Plate        War Axe                                                     Post #140
 
Um
      8   Ancient Sword       Battle Staff        Casque              + 5 more            Post #140
 
Mal
      8   Bone Knife          Flail               Great Helm          + 3 more            Post #140
      8   Spiculum                                                                        Post #140

Ist
- 
 
Gul
-
 
Vex
      8   Flanged Mace        Heavy Belt          Heavy Crossbow      Suwayyah            Post #140

 
Ohm
      8   Amn Rune            Falcata             Shako               War Javelin         Post #140
 
Lo
-
 
Sur
     5    Mace                Mithril Point       Nef Rune            + 3 more            Kimppi
 
Ber
-
 
Last edited:
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Fabian said:
jjscud, from reading your post I get the feeling you know the exact drop patterns on each player setting. Is this correct? If so, I think many of us would like to know exactly how effecient LK running (or indeed RoF running) would be.
Click to expand...

I'd like to know exactly how efficient WSK running is. Make a test of running a few thousand hours and giev results plz!!!



 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

No need for that Corrupted. We both know about truncated seeds and the finite number of drops and how x of those are HR's, right?
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

@Kimppi: If indeed you found it on p5, indicate it on the table properly, atm it looks like that Sur pattern is p8 :)

@jj: What Fabian said ;)
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

@jjscud: +1 for keeping it to yourself.
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

Usually, I think research is best served being shared. This time however, I like it kept a bit of a mystery. It leaves us something to discover :)
 
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

I see only one problem here: Screenshot of Kimppi's Sur contains 5 blue items. With such mass of items and other junk it's very highly possible to skip some runes.

GG for keeping a part of this to yourself :thumbup:

Jah pattern in RoF is interesting, but is there any way that Cham will appear?
 
Last edited:
Re: LK 1.13beta Special Chest Drops

People are really applauding this guy for saying he won't share his findings with us? This blows my mind.
 
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