I certainly wasn't seeing clearly when I wrote that.
If your Hammerdins are anything like mine, they get Spirit sword and shield at level 25; that's +4 All Skills boosting warmth right there. AND the Ral neatly plugs the Fire resistance hole left by his Spirit shield.
I guess I should, cause yesterday LK dropped me a cracked +3 skill Matriarch bow. (Screenshot later. Forgot to upload it yesterday.)You should wish for more items in this thread! Congratulations!
Very interested in reading more about why you feel this is best, compared to other skill based builds (fishyzon, magezon etc). But I do agree that it would be amazing for that build, and that it is one of the best (at least).
You have a point about Warmth being fairly nice. I feel I may have been a bit overly negative there. If you don't have access to insight it is nice. But insight is cheaper, and a good merc weapon too.
Hmm... interesting. Will +3 warmth (sorceress only) still apply to others (i.e. non-sorceressess (sorceri?)) if they have access to warmth as an oskill? If so it could be quite huge for it.
Yes, it will, and yes, it is. In the SPF Mat/Pat/Guardian Build Compilation, one can find several instances of players using the +3 Sorceress only staffmods on Ormus' Robes to boost, for example, oskill Fireball from partial Trang's set and oskill Hydra from Dragonscale. (My personal Grail objective is a +3 Zeal/4 OS War Scepter for Passion, like the one @maxicek used on Ninefingers. I have Passion in a +1 Zeal WS, but I want MOAR!
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By sheer coincidence, I have a level 79 Magezon wearing Peace, who has been frustrating me for years. She has been switching between Lycander's Aim and Kuko Shakaku (neither is upgraded; I can't, because I play non-Ladder on battle.net.) In my latest respec (still incomplete; I have a few unspent skill and stat points) I was pleased to be able to give her four Fletcher's GCS, each with +Life (95 total) while maintaining maxed resists. But in order to do that, I had to cram the rest of her backpack full of resistance charms, including a 19@ Annihilus and two Shimmering GCs (14 and 13). That left her with only 220 Mana; too little for a Mage, and with only 6% ML she wasn't leeching enough to be a Vamp. (Her merc has a lvl 15 Insight, but FzA gobbles mana rapidly.)
), bringing both Freezing Arrow and Immolation Arrow to level 40.
I did a full clear of The Hole (level 80), with no difficulties whatsoever.), and after I find a couple more Um runes.
I am extremely wary of such categorically absolute statements when I read them, and try not to make them myself. So you are totally justified in wondering...
All my Zons wear Peace through Nightmare, but once in Hell I allow only Javazons to keep them (mostly. Sometimes I forget.
), because only Javazons can have shields. Absent a shield, other armors make it much easier to deal with the combination of mana, resistances, FHR, CBF, etc. which make a character not only viable but enjoyable to play.
Really interesting read about these two bows broken down. It will be very interesting to test my slow approach and see how that compares. I get the feeling it should be even better, since you are not relying on the taunt proc - it is just a very nice bonus when it happens.
And let me be very clear, I am also deeply grateful to get someone to dig into this with me. Alot of interesting comments have come up here, but noone with the same
This was a very interesting analysis, weighting armour vs charms. Cause while charms can yield either the mana, all res or skills from two grandcharms (along with two suffixes), they can't yield more than one; At least not to the same degree as peace (skills) and bone (mana and all res) can.
A spearzon is one of those builds I am just dying to try. I just found other uses for amazon in the 1.11 septs, and was not feeling quite masochistic enough to have an untwinked one as part of this sept. Still, I will keep this in mind for the future.
Thank you. This was a very detailed, insightful and easy to follow breakdown. I very much appreciate it.I am extremely wary of such categorically absolute statements when I read them, and try not to make them myself. So you are totally justified in wondering...
All my Zons wear Peace through Nightmare, but once in Hell I allow only Javazons to keep them (mostly. Sometimes I forget.
For a Lightning/Physical Javazon build, Treachery, Lionheart, Stone, Duress, Smoke, Enigma, or Fortitude may well be better than Peace. For a Poison specialist, Bramble absolutely rocks. For a pure Lightning Zon, +15% LSD Ormus' Robes out-damages Peace.
But for the special case of a Zon maxing Plague and Poison Javelin and two Lightning skills, IME and IMNSHO, Peace is BIS. I have four of these: Toxic_Shaka, Praxidice (more here), Dexless (more here), and Elektra_Green, about whom I haven't yet written. Enigma, CoH, and the mythical +2 Arkaine's Valor match the +2 Zon skills on Peace, but none of them offer the +2 Critical Strike staffmod or the CtC level 15 Valkyrie.
Maxing four offensive skills doesn't leave many available for P&M. But Decoy is essential to keep Plague Javelin from being an exercise in masochism. I'll write more about this later... Need sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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I completely concur.
Oh, my; I can easily envision a whole Sept of Peaceful Harmonious Summoners!There are some very interesting things that has surfaced here - some even hinting that one might find out-of-class use of other armours than treachery.
I don't do Fishyzons. My first ever Amazon Guardian maxed Charged and Lightning Strikes, Decoy, and Valkyrie, with a Harmony Bow and single-point Magic Arrow for use against LIs. It worked, albeit slowly on the bow switch, but I really did not like having to switch weapons.
Oh, there was no reasoning involved at all! I just compared my Lightning Zon's LCS displays with the two armors.
Not to mention summon resists making them tanky as hell.
So much for a totally elemental immune Valkyrie (would have needed summon resists level 29).Oh boy do I feel this pain. I love so many things about fishyzons, but switching weapons mid combat is a huge minus. As is keeping track of 3 different sorts of "ammunition" (javelins, arrows & mana; all replenished in their own way).
I just had time to really read (and not just skim) the links this weekend, and was very intrigued by the vampire slayer build. It seems a bit like what I was sniffing around (thanks to the inspiration of @Miron and @skoolbus), but just put together.
Vampire slayer guide said:
Just a friendly reminder that you left me with these two teasers.
Other than my Wolfbarb suggestion, I can't come up with anything....I have to find some other out-of-class use for Principle.
Rain (Druid): As I mentioned, I have Rain on a Fire Druid, but the armor gently whispers, "Put me on a Windy!" My partner has a Hurricanine wearing Rain, wielding Windhammer, and equipping Carrion Wind. Fury generates a lot of synergized Twisters. Both friedbananazzzz (Patriarch Twister) and crawlingdeadman (Guardian LoupGarou the Wind Wolf) wrote favorably about the synergized Twisters.Just a friendly reminder that you left me with these two teasers.
) Dexless has 7 hard points in Decoy; Praxidice has 6, and Elektra has 5, and all have all four of their offensive skills maxed. These investments in Decoy are not enough to keep the Valkyrie alive in all circumstances, but they've proven sufficient to make the Decoy itself sufficiently durable to make Plague Javelin very effective. (Decoy Life is partly a function of Zon max life. Shaka: 1396; Dexless: 1836; Praxidice: 1507; Elektra: 1420.)
I did look into a potential fury wolf with synergized twisters/tornadoes, but I realized that finding a windhammer was not something I should bet on, so I settled for a normal windy. So thanks alot for the links, I will look at them more closely. Will be interesting to see their write-ups.
Haha, that part about singers is such a good point. LE enemies seems to be their Achillies heel.
Oh I completely concur. Started up my untwinked necro - BA is such an incredible skill. Can't wait to find two Um and/or start the RW sept and get it ctc.
so I have to find some other out-of-class use for Principle.
The cast origin of the holy bolts really messed my plan up. I can no longer find any out-of-class use worth noting apart from the life bonus. (I mean the fire res is there, but it is just a random Ral.)
I suppose I might qualify.
...should work very well with any Assassin build I can imagine.
Trapper. Even a topless Trapper's Trap damage can easily exceed a Dancer's.
But Lionheart gives an Assassin +110 Life, PLUS a ton of other mods hugely beneficial to a melee character. I'd be inclined to use Principle where it does the least harm, and IMO that's on a Trapper.
Oh, I looked a little at a dancer, but went kicker last minute when I read the kicker guide. It recommended pure kicker for assassin beginners, since it claimed dancers could be a bit complex unless you knew assassins well. Would you say such warnings are exagerated? I have only played a trapper before. (Well, at least if you count those who have gotten past NM act 2 or so).
This could pretty much be the slogan for it. You might not even need the "assassin" part in it.
Yeah, a Lionheart would be better than a Principle. Arguably, as would a 3 Pruby 1 Ral armour. I agree with you though, maybe the reasonale choice would be to play it safe with the characters who drew the short straw that is Principle.
I'm happy to hear that my excesses of words and pictures don't come across as overwhelming burdens!
I assume the Kicker guide to which you refer is ilkori's. His "pure kicker" skill allocation includes 20 points in Venom, with which I strongly disagree, and 20 points in Death Sentry, which puts the 'Sin well into Dancer territory anyway. I also strongly disagree that a Dancer is more complicated and needs better gear. I can go into great detail if you're interested.
TL;DR: No, WoI is not useless. Long answer: I earnestly entreat you to read all of Playing With Fire, a detailed account of four Guardian Fire Assassins. I would entreat you to do so just as earnestly even if the author were not my partner of 15 years in D2 and RL, because it's really, really good.
I think that's a very good idea, because I'm sure that in the course of completing the first Sept you're going to learn tons more about what makes a character fun (or not) for you to play.
Go into as much detail as you got the energy for. I will certainly read it, for you are yet to produce a wall of text to intimidating for me.
Ah, I see we have detected a small flaw in my plan. I do suppose some form of trap is needed if I don't want the merc to have all the fun.
It's definitely a more difficult path than a Flashdancer, who has a solid Fire Blast attack synergized by all of her Lightning traps. But, as Dasha_Cayenne demonstrated, it's definitely doable untwinked-- and major style points.I will definitely give a flame dancer a go.
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