Base for Faith Bow

[Jamie]

I recently came across my first Jah ever. I already cubed up and made an Enigma. So I am strongly considering making a Faith, due to my love of bowzons.

I have no WF at the moment. I think my eventual plan will be to either run a Faith Bow and an act 2 Might Merc, so I can have him and a Valk and occasionally a Decoy for tanks. The other plan would be to use a WF and then have a Faith Rougue Merc.

Since I am not rune rich by amy means, I am kind of leaning towards a non GMB or MB Faith, so I can get more usage out of it. Such as using a Rouge Merc on a Barb and things like that.

Making a Faith Bow that would work good on my Amazon in the mean time, coupled with a Might Merc, seems the most logical. This is assuming it is in a bow that can be moved to a Rouge Merc whenever I want to.

I don't want to risk getting a low Fanat roll and having to use up all my gear slots for IAS. I also think I would try Multi Shot, but am not completely sold on that and am not against Strafe either.

The main advice I am asking for, is which bow base I should use if I make a faith? I am pretty sure I want to make it in a non-Amazon only base, for versatility until I am wealthier. I have read stuff online, but opinions vary wildly and are from all different eras and I haven't really dug into a bowzon since the simple days of 1.09.

At my disposal are these, either 4 socketed if not mentioned or need socketed if listed:
- 15%/3AR Sup. Blade Bow (need Larzuk'd) 35.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- 13% Sup. Blade Bow 34.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- 13% Sup. Great Bow 35.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- 14% Sup. Great Bow (need Larzuk'd) 36 avg. [-10 speed]
- Plain Diamond Bow 36.5 avg. [0 speed]
- Plain Shadow Bow 37 avg. [0 Speed]
- Plain Crusader Bow 39 avg. [10 speed]
- Plain Ward Bow 36.5 avg. [0 speed]

AMAZON ONLY:
- Plain +1,+2 and a +3 skills Matriarchal Bow 33.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- Plain +1 and +3 skills Grand Matron Bow 43 avg. [10 speed]

All of the Amazon only bows would have to be cubed and hoped for 4 sockets, if I were to attempt to use those. But I am heavily leaning towards a more universal Faith.

I can read guides and people's opinions all day long online, but I enjoy hearing from the group of Single Player people that we have here. You guys seem very knowledgeable and always give me better advice than I can find anywhere online.

I am not 100% sure on what all of my gear will be, but I'm sure some of you have good ideas on what gear to use and what bow looks like a good universal option going forward, to be used on a bowzon and on Rogues. TiA.

 

[Pringlesman]

I would say step one would be to cube your bows and see if they are even an option. The more options you can eliminate the easier your choice becomes.

Personally I'm a bigger fan of WF + Faith merc than I am Faith + might merc so I would lean towards the Great Bow as it has the best speed on a rogue. But if you are all in on only doing a faith amazon I would wait until I found a 4 socket 3 skill GMB.

 

[Jocular]

If you really want to hit the 7fpa breakpoint for multi then yeah, you're going to have to make it in a -10 WSM bow. Otherwise it's just a big roll of the dice to hope for level 14 fanat or higher. This is assuming you'll be using atma's amulet instead of highlords or cat eye. And assuming that you'll be using a 45% ias helm.

So in my opinion, your choice is boiled down to Atma's amulet and a - 10WSM bow, or Highlords/Cats Eye and a 0WSM bow.

But if having high pierce doesn't matter to you then you can use nosferatu's and get away with using a 0WSM bow while still using Atma's.

As for your worrying over strafe vs multi. I think most people agree that the best option is to max strafe and then get multi to level 12 or so with +skills.

Ive never used an Amazon who hit the 7fpa breakpoint, but I've always found 8fpa to be fine. So i would personally go for the ward bow or diamond bow and call it a day.

 

[Jamie]

@Pringlesman the only bows that have socket amounts up in the air, are the GMB and Mat Bow and I would probably only make it if one of the +3 ones got 4 sockets. But I am leaning towards non Zon Only bows. I want to be able to move Faith to a merc if I find a WF. Even if I don't find or use WF, I wouldn't mind using Faith with an a2 might merc and still having the option to move the bow to a rouge merc on a non Amazon character.. like a melee sorc/shape shifter druid,babak, etc.

@Jocular I did forget that I can strafe and Multi and don't need to use a lot of skills. I have always enjoyed using Frozen Arrow too, but this was when I never had gear as good as Faith and when I start having top ene gear, I probably won't need it at much for crowd control/safety. Or I could put at least 1 point to it if I want to freeze groups.

I can't afford to retry for a higher level fanat or to get the wrong one and have to to really mess with the gear to get the right BP. But I admit that I am completely confused on how it works with the the level of fanat and how much off weapon IAS I need to add. Like if i use a -10 versus a 0, how much IAS I need added for each Fanat. It seems like it would be smart for me to Larzuk socket the 15/3 blade bow for speed, damage and sexiness of perfect superior stats lol. The great bow I wouldn't have to use up quest, but the perfect Sup. Stats on blade bow look cool and I like that style of looking bow much better than most of the other styles. If I am spending the runes, might as well make it look sexy to my eyes ;P

I don't have a Highlord's or a Cat's Eye yet, for some reason. So using a rare Amazon amulet or Atma's is the likely scenario at the moment. Although I would like to think that I would find them soon, as much as I play.

I also am still hoping to find a CoA or Giant Skull soon to use on bowzon, but I am still searching for ED/IAS jewels too. May have to do some trading eventually. I do have some nice Amazon circlets though.

 

[Jamie]

It looks like I would need 48% off weapon IAS to hit 7fpa if I make Faith in a Blade Bow and roll the lowest, level 12, fanaticism? So worst case scenario I would need 48% if I go Blade Bow. Which between gloves and Helm, should be pretty easy.

The average damage difference between them all is only a few damage, so I am thinking speed and the style I find sexy, wins out lol.

Am I checking this correct?

 

[Jocular]

You've got the ias calculations correct for the -10WSM bows. I also agree that fashion is more important than min/maxing, so if you like the blade bow more than the great bow...do it!

I would still say that it would be a good idea to do some gear tests to see the difference between 8fpa and 7fpa multishot. Because if you think you can live with 8fpa, and by chance happen to get lvl 14-15 fanat when you make your bow you'll still be able to move your gear around and hit the 7fpa breakpoint with a higher damaging bow. Just my 2 cents. I do admit it was a revelation on my bowa when I swapped some gear and changed from 9fpa to 8fpa. Perhaps the same kinda impressive feeling will come with 7fpa.

 

[EatSleepDiablo]

Just in case you missed it, a must read for runeword bows.

 

[Gynli]

For universal use, it definitely comes down to razor vs diamond/shadow.

Personally though, id only ever make it in a razor bow if it was solely meant for the rogue merc.

For bowa...
-10 bows - MB > razor
- 0 bows - diamond for tight range, shadow for slightly better dps, ward bow is the unwanted middle ground.
- 10 bow - GMB > other choices

For rogue merc + some build
- -10 > 0 > 10. Very minimal difference on what base. Its the fana roll that matters the most.

For non-amazon bow builds.
It comes down to what gimmick of the build you want to play, but at this point you know exactly what you want to achieve with the build and how to set them up. So, i think this is outside of your concern for the 1st Faith.

All in all, ill recommend diamond/shadow as the best choice.

 

[Jamie]

@Jocular I am terrified of making it in a 0 base and rolling a low fanat and having to worry too much about IAS in the rest of my gear. With the Blade Bow being superior, -10, cool looking, useable on zon and rouge merc, not too wide of a damage range and only being 1.5 average damage less than the highest damage 0 base speed bow.... it seems like the best option. Plus it is 15%Ed/3 AR So it is perfect numbers and that makes it look and feel that much cooler for having those numbers instead of randomness. Gotta take care of the OCD and stuff like that lmao.

Only other option I would consider would probably be the GMB with +3, but being as poor as I am, I need to make this bow available to rouge mercs and any character.

Still open to more insight and things that might talk me out of this. I still can't promise that I won't back out and try to trade to get Infinity or save or something else instead lol.

My original bowzon named 'Aim', I was playing twinked and then I instantly respec'd her to a javazon when a Griffon's dropped for me. She was named for a bowzon. So I would have to level up one of my other 2x Zons that I have floating about and focus on making her into a zon that could use the Faith.

My great love for bowzons that started 15+ years ago is what is driving me towards the Faith.

 

[WoRG1]

If you want to use it on Rogue, DON'T put it in a Shadow Bow, or she won't be able to use it until she's lvl 75/77/80 (Norm/NM/Hell) without +DEX boost...similar issue with Great Bow: lvl 71/74/76 without +STR support

Blade/Diamond/Ward Bow Faiths can be equipped by Rogues at lvl65 with no stat boost.

WoRG

 

[Nano]

At my disposal are these, either 4 socketed if not mentioned or need socketed if listed:
- 15%/3AR Sup. Blade Bow (need Larzuk'd) 35.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- 13% Sup. Blade Bow 34.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- 13% Sup. Great Bow 35.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- 14% Sup. Great Bow (need Larzuk'd) 36 avg. [-10 speed]
- Plain Diamond Bow 36.5 avg. [0 speed]
- Plain Shadow Bow 37 avg. [0 Speed]
- Plain Crusader Bow 39 avg. [10 speed]
- Plain Ward Bow 36.5 avg. [0 speed]

AMAZON ONLY:
- Plain +1,+2 and a +3 skills Matriarchal Bow 33.5 avg. [-10 speed]
- Plain +1 and +3 skills Grand Matron Bow 43 avg. [10 speed]

I just wanted to point out that this is a misleading comparison of the average base damage. The ED from superior items is additive with the 330% ED from Faith. The actual average base damage for Blade Bow and Great Bow is 31 and 32, respectively.

The proper comparison should be:
15% Superior Blade Bow with 21-41 base damage at 345% Weapon ED. Displayed Weapon damage: 93-182
Plain Diamond Bow with 33-40 base damage at 330% Weapon ED. Displayed Weapon damage: 141-172
Bow base damage referenced from Arreat Summit.

 

[Jamie]

@WoRG that is good to know. I wasn't completely sure of the Rouge stats, as I rarely use them never having a Faith, but I was definitely considering requirements for Amazon and now will for Rouge

@NanoMist something I didn't consider, thank you. So Diamond Bow will do considerably more damage, but I will be taking a gamble on the roll. How did you get those damages though?

 

[ffs]

@NanoMist something I didn't consider, thank you. So Diamond Bow will do considerably more damage, but I will be taking a gamble on the roll. How did you get those damages though?

Just use the multipliers e.g. 15 ED Blade Bow base = 21 + (21*3.45) = 93 min dmg, 41 + (41*3.45) = 182 max dmg.

As stated in the other thread, can't go wrong with DB really IMO, at least for physical Bowie, irrespective of whether you want to use it on Merc or on Bowie. Assuming LoH and HLW or Cat's Eye, you will need an additional 30 IAS to hit 7 FPA Multishot, or 25 IAS with a 14+ Fana roll. In either case, 2x IAS jewels in a circlet (or Giant Skull) or an IAS jewel'ed Andy's will take you there.

What complicates things a bit is if you want to use an FCR amulet to teleport faster with Enigma setups. Here the Diamond Bow will hit 7 FPA only with 3-socket circlet with IAS jewels, otherwise 8 FPA. Mat Bow is interesting here because it only needs 50 IAS to hit 7 FPA with any Fana roll (45 with 14+ roll). Though I don't know if it's worth the lower damage for physical Bowie, haven't made a Faith in Mat Bow so far. Worth noting there's also 1.07 Valk Wing for time-travellers – fits this approach perfectly.

That's assuming physical Bowie. If you want to go elemental Bowie or hybrid, the choice is basically between Mat Bow and GMB since these offer skills. In that case, question is do you want to maximize elemental damage (Mat Bow – better speed) or rather have better leech and an easier time against immunes (GMB – better physical damage). Personal preference I'd say... if you don't go with Ice in the first place for FA builds at least.

 

[Jamie]

@ffs I was forgetting to add the base damage back to the ed lol. Too early in the morning I guess.

The only reason I am staying away from Mat and GMB, is so I can have a little more versatility with it.

I've yet to find a Highlord's or Cat's Eye by some bad luck. Plenty of LoH laying around. I haven't found a CoA or a Giant Skull yet either, unfortunately. I have several 3 socketed/life helms I could slap IAS in or go with Andy's.. but I don't think i could handle how ugly an Andy's would look on my bowzon lol. I much prefer circlet, crown or bone helm styles on her, or even the valkry helm style.

I don't think I can afford a .07 Valk. I have a sorc on another pc that is in 1.07 and a decent ways through the game. I forget if Valk is one of the items you can't find from a boss and need to rack or not. I would assume 07 Valk can be farmed from a boss? I kind of got upset with 1.07 and the fact that I couldn't farm Meph or a boss for the Valor and Shako that I wanted. I thought about moving up to 1.08 to farm them, but I hear 07 has way more advantages than 08.

I don't plan on using an Enigma anyway though. I think I would be content with a Fortitude on her and running and clearing out areas. If I want to skip around I can do that more efficiently on a Sorc, Barb, Din or javazon.

I didn't realize the damage difference was going to be so big between the Blade and Diamond initially. Even if my Blade is a 15/3 and the Diamond is plain. That really disappoints me, because I love the look of the Blade Bow a lot more than the Diamond lol. I wish trivial things like that didn't bug me like they didn't used to.

I guess there are a few items I need to come across before I can make the bowzon I really want. Maybe I was jumping the gun and should stick to focusing on my Zealdin for a melee char. I just have never owned a Jah on SP and really am eager to put it to use and don't know if there is a spot on my Zealdin where it would get good use. Plus I have always loved bowzonz..

 

[Belthazor]

I forget if Valk is one of the items you can't find from a boss and need to rack or not. I would assume 07 Valk can be farmed from a boss?

Has to be racked. There are very few useful items that can be farmed from bosses. Except for jewellery, none of them are for end-game use. If you're not into racking, then your best bet is probably to trade for the useful 1.07 items.

P.S.: I made my Faith in a Superior Diamond Bow back then. Only used it on my Bowazon's merc, though.

 

[Jamie]

@LongingForDeath yeah I have so little interest in racking and looking for good racks. I was so excited to start 1.07 until I realized what was up.

They fixed it in 1.08 though, right? So if I upgraded my 07 sorcy to 08, I could do Hell Mephisto and theoretically find a Shako and Valor from him and it would be the same version. Just a lot harder to find them off Mfing than from finding a solid rack in 1.07. If so, I think upgrading to 08 would be worth it. But I'm not sure if that means some of the tasty charms are out of the equation.

 

[Belthazor]

I've never played 1.08, so I don't know much about it. But from what I've heard is that MF is completely broken there. So, even though Meph and co. can drop from their hell TCs, it's probably as if you're running them with 0% MF. So, getting a Shako and especially a Valor from him will most likely take a lot longer than finding a rack and racking them.

 

[WoRG1]

MF is broke in 1.08, so yeah, its like running with 0MF...Meph CAN drop it, tho

1.07 Valk Wing CAN drop, it doesn't have to be racked(its only qlvl52)...but not from act bosses (or most superuniques), as they're bugged to always drop from their Normal treasure classes. Hell council can drop it, so can Hell Blood Raven, heck, it can drop pretty much from Nightmare ActIV on (chests and poppables, too)...or, if you did decide to rack it, you can do so in Nightmare LK already...

WoRG

 

[Belthazor]

1.07 Valk Wing CAN drop, it doesn't have to be racked(its only qlvl52)...but not from act bosses (or most superuniques), as they're bugged to always drop from their Normal treasure classes. Hell council can drop it, so can Hell Blood Raven, heck, it can drop pretty much from Nightmare ActIV on (chests and poppables, too)

I figured that would be the case, but wasn't sure about it, so I didn't mention it. In fact, I recently had a Guillaume's Face drop from a champion/boss pack while running hell Andariel, which is the same base item as the Valk Wing. Not sure about the odds, though, with MF working the way it does in 1.07. I'm pretty sure there are certain breakpoints, too, as I reliably get set items from boss packs in hell with over 556% MF. I'm sure uniques can still drop from them, but it would be much rarer.

 

[Jocular]

If your gear choices result in needing 45%ias from your helm, don't forget about Mavina's!