Police Shooting Thread

[superdave]

Ready to get flamed for this but here's an OT question: What's the point of arguing if there is a 99% certainty you'll never change the other sides mind/opinion?

If we don't respond to the crazies, it wouldn't be long before the OTF reads like Parler or the comment section of Fox News.

 

[Glurin]

I don't expect someone like superdave to ever change his mind short of something happening in his life that gives him that awakening moment. But it's still generally better to confront them on their lies and propaganda than to just let it fester and suck other people in.

 

[superdave]

Isaiah Brown, 32 of Virginia was shot by police while he was on a 911 call. Brown is a Black man. Police say he had a gun but the gun turned out to be a phone. He is in critical condition with 10 gunshot wounds. The officer thought that Brown may be suicidal because he had the gun/phone to his head and he decided to help?

 

[superdave]

Andrew Brown Jr. of NC was shot and killed by police yesterday morning while they were executing(see what i did there?) a warrant at his house. He was killed in his vehicle, driving away from the house. Body camera video has not been released. Witnesses said the back window was shot out and that police fired multiple rounds. Andrew Brown Jr. had a record of minor drug convictions.

The family was supposed to see the video this morning. They have not been able to watch the videos yet because the police said they want to redact portions. We will not be able to see any police body cam vids until a judge issues a ruling on their release to the public. Three officers at the scene have retired and 7 others are on paid leave.

 

[superdave]

A state of emergency has been declared in Elizabeth City NC prior to the family viewing the video.

 

[Glurin]

You're not helping anything dave. You're just perpetuating blind anti-cop hatred doing this.

Here's a thought. How about not passing judgement until all the facts are in? Gosh, what a novel idea!

 

[superdave]

If it appears that the police were justified, I will post that here just like I did with the Columbus OH police shooting.

If it appears that the police murdered the man, I will be here to call that out and I suspect you'll be here to defend the murderers like you have done before.

It is you and people like you who are not helping.

 

[Glurin]

I will always speak out against lynch mobs, regardless of who it is they want to hang.

 

[superdave]

You say lynch mob, we say jury of one's peers. But prove my point...continue to defend a murderer.

 

[superdave]

The family was shown a 20 second clip of the shooting. They say that Andrew Brown Jr.'s hands were clearly on the steering wheel and that the car did not move until after police started shooting.

 

[Noodle]

Dave, if he was shot with his hands on the steering wheel and the car didn't move until he was shot, then clearly the cops were just giving him a nice, gentle nudge with their bullets to help him get the car moving. It's racist of you to imply anything otherwise.

 

[Glurin]

Noodle, what we have is a grieving, emotional family claiming his hands were on the steering wheel and the car didn't move until he was shot. That's all.

If congress had a dollar for every tearful mother who claimed her kid was a saint that did nothing wrong after he was killed doing something wrong, they could almost pay off the national debt. Not that they would, but they could.

 

[superdave]

So you are completely discounting what the family and their lawyer described seeing in the 20 second video? It is telling that the police chief who watched the entire video is not contradicting the family's description of events. Why am I not surprised that you would take this stance?

 

[Glurin]

So you are completely discounting what the family and their lawyer described seeing in the 20 second video?

Nope. I'm saying they're about the furthest thing from an unbiased source of information there is and they only had access to 20 seconds of a single video.

 

[superdave]

As unbiased as the Minneapolis police report issued to the public after the Floyd murder? You believed that load of BS but you won't believe the Brown family? Why is that? Could it be because they are African American? It would be hard to screw up the few details from a 20 second video.

 

[Glurin]

Well frankly, yes, I trust the police a whole lot more than an emotional family trying to cope with a recent tragic loss. You should too. The police at least are trained to examine the facts and practice objectivity. Not just throw people in prison because somebody's feelings got hurt. You know, follow that pesky "innocent until proven guilty" thing. It's got nothing to do with skin color, and it is highly offensive and insulting that you think it does.

Even the Minnesota AG Keith Ellison finally admitted this weekend that there was exactly zero evidence that the George Floyd incident was racially motivated. None. Nadda. Zip. That's why the cop wasn't charged with a hate crime. Surprise! Yeah, the interviewer was flabbergasted about it too and sputtered out that the cop was white and floyd was black therefore racism. Ellison then went on to spew garbage that even though there was no evidence at all, it was still racial hatred because systemic racism, but they couldn't prove it because there is zero evidence of that being the case.

 

[superdave]

Even the Minnesota AG Keith Ellison finally admitted this weekend that there was exactly zero evidence that the George Floyd incident was racially motivated.

You are cherry picking.

Ellison did indeed say he could not charge Chauvin with a hate crime because at no time did Chauvin say "I am going to kill you dirty (insert racial epitaph here)". AG's only charge individuals with crimes that they have evidence to show the jury to prove their case. He did however have evidence to prove 2 counts of murder and one count of manslaughter.

What Ellison did suggest in the interview was that systemic racism is the root of the unfair treatment of Black people compared to white individuals. That was why the cops interacted with Floyd the way they did. That is why Floyd was murdered.

Systemic racism is not a crime that Ellison could charge anyone with. By definition, it is not an individual crime but is the systems and structures that have procedures or processes that disadvantage Black Americans. It is something inherent in police forces across the nation. Change can only occur when we admit that it exists. I thank the protesters who have brought this to the attention of the media.

 

[superdave]

The family was shown a 20 second clip of the shooting. They say that Andrew Brown Jr.'s hands were clearly on the steering wheel and that the car did not move until after police started shooting.

The family's attorney said that Brown was shot in the back of the head.

 

[Glurin]

You are cherry picking.

Who's cherry picking? Your entire reason for being pissed off is the idea that the police saw a black guy and decided to kill him because racism. The AG just admitted that that was not the case. Which is what everyone who isn't a "peaceful protester" burning buildings and smashing glass has been saying from the start!

The idea of systemic racism in the police force us bullshit. The data just flat out does not support that assertion. Period. Oh you'll find a bad cop here or there. That's just a consequence of having a system run by human beings. But this notion that the entire police force of the U.S. is just a branch office of the KKK is complete garbage.

 

[superdave]

The family's attorney said that Brown was shot in the back of the head.

The FBI just announced that they are opening a federal civil rights investigation.